All means all and that's all it means! (Or, how your hermeneutic makes chopped liver out of the bible's words)
Nov 16, 2017 05:07:53 #
Recently I've been discussing some passages with another hogger and it appears that applying a careful, consistent hermeneutic might be a foreign idea to some. If you haven't heard the word hermeneutic it just means your "method of interpretation" whatever that may be.
In the case of "all means all and that's all it means!" the hermeneutic mistake here is applying a universal scope to the word "pas" which is frequently translated "all" and ignoring the context that it's found in. We don't do that in English, why do it when reading your bible?
For example, when we say to our children "Did you eat all of the cookies? I was saving them for company later!" do we think that someone should interpret that as "all of the cookies everywhere in the world and at all times in history"? of course not. We know that the unspoken context is "all of the cookies that I made yesterday"
Well, the bible is no different. For a biblical example:
“And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.”
Luke 2:1.
So, do we see the word "all" (or "pas" in Greek) and think it means that Caesar was decreeing that everyone in the entire world at that time should be taxed? Even those not under Roman rule?
No, of course not. We let the context determine the scope of the meaning of "pas" and we understand that it means "all those under Roman rule at the time of the decree"
These examples might seem basic and straightforward, but what about those places where the wooden reading of "all" would significantly impact one’s view of what Scripture is saying?
The passage that myself and the other 'hogger were discussing was John 12:32 where Jesus says: “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.””
The word underlying "all people" is "pas" and it has a range of meanings. Sometimes it's universal in scope but not very often. All words have a semantic range and their context is what determines their meaning.
So does that mean that when Jesus will be crucified that He will draw every person who ever lived and will ever live to Himself? It's possible that it's a universal meaning of "all" but let's look at the context and see. The account begins where John records the following:
“Now among those who went up to worship at the feast were some Greeks. So these came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, and asked him, “Sir, we wish to see Jesus.””
You recall that the Jews, as God's favored people, thought that salvation was for them only, the idea that God would save non-jews was a foreign idea to many but here we see Greeks coming to Jesus. That's the context of Jesus' remarks that follow...that not only will he draw Jews, but also folks from every background and walk of life.
Is there a way to check to make sure we've read and understood the context correctly? Sure there is. Jesus Himself limits the context earlier in chapter 6 where He is explaining the unbelief of some who've followed him, seen the miracles, and yet, they do not believe. He explains that those that believe are the ones that the Father gives to the Son. The one's drawn by the Father are given to the Son and the Son raises them to eternal life. They believe because they've been drawn and given.
Can we further confirm this?
Sure, in the passages following John 12:32 He records the following:
There is a lot of information in that passage but as you can see, just like in John 6...many did not believe though they were witnesses of the same miracles that those who believed were. Also notice that they "could not" believe, they did not have the power to believe...why? God blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts.
If we woodenly take the meaning of "pas" as "all men whoever lived and will ever live" it makes chopped liver out of the text of scripture, but if we take Jesus' words in context to mean "men from all walks of life" then it harmonizes perfectly, and consistently.
This isn't the only place that folks marry themselves to the idea that "all means all and that's all it means!" but it's a popular one.
Remember, context context context. It's very important when studying God's word.
In the case of "all means all and that's all it means!" the hermeneutic mistake here is applying a universal scope to the word "pas" which is frequently translated "all" and ignoring the context that it's found in. We don't do that in English, why do it when reading your bible?
For example, when we say to our children "Did you eat all of the cookies? I was saving them for company later!" do we think that someone should interpret that as "all of the cookies everywhere in the world and at all times in history"? of course not. We know that the unspoken context is "all of the cookies that I made yesterday"
Well, the bible is no different. For a biblical example:
“And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.”
Luke 2:1.
So, do we see the word "all" (or "pas" in Greek) and think it means that Caesar was decreeing that everyone in the entire world at that time should be taxed? Even those not under Roman rule?
No, of course not. We let the context determine the scope of the meaning of "pas" and we understand that it means "all those under Roman rule at the time of the decree"
These examples might seem basic and straightforward, but what about those places where the wooden reading of "all" would significantly impact one’s view of what Scripture is saying?
The passage that myself and the other 'hogger were discussing was John 12:32 where Jesus says: “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.””
The word underlying "all people" is "pas" and it has a range of meanings. Sometimes it's universal in scope but not very often. All words have a semantic range and their context is what determines their meaning.
So does that mean that when Jesus will be crucified that He will draw every person who ever lived and will ever live to Himself? It's possible that it's a universal meaning of "all" but let's look at the context and see. The account begins where John records the following:
“Now among those who went up to worship at the feast were some Greeks. So these came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, and asked him, “Sir, we wish to see Jesus.””
You recall that the Jews, as God's favored people, thought that salvation was for them only, the idea that God would save non-jews was a foreign idea to many but here we see Greeks coming to Jesus. That's the context of Jesus' remarks that follow...that not only will he draw Jews, but also folks from every background and walk of life.
Is there a way to check to make sure we've read and understood the context correctly? Sure there is. Jesus Himself limits the context earlier in chapter 6 where He is explaining the unbelief of some who've followed him, seen the miracles, and yet, they do not believe. He explains that those that believe are the ones that the Father gives to the Son. The one's drawn by the Father are given to the Son and the Son raises them to eternal life. They believe because they've been drawn and given.
Can we further confirm this?
Sure, in the passages following John 12:32 He records the following:
Quote:
“When Jesus had said these things, he departed and... (show quote)
There is a lot of information in that passage but as you can see, just like in John 6...many did not believe though they were witnesses of the same miracles that those who believed were. Also notice that they "could not" believe, they did not have the power to believe...why? God blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts.
If we woodenly take the meaning of "pas" as "all men whoever lived and will ever live" it makes chopped liver out of the text of scripture, but if we take Jesus' words in context to mean "men from all walks of life" then it harmonizes perfectly, and consistently.
This isn't the only place that folks marry themselves to the idea that "all means all and that's all it means!" but it's a popular one.
Remember, context context context. It's very important when studying God's word.
Nov 16, 2017 20:19:24 #
Nov 17, 2017 01:37:27 #
tjim wrote:
Well said.
Thank you very much. That's not the response I've been getting lately so thanks. :)
Nov 17, 2017 18:24:50 #
rpavich wrote:
Thank you very much. That's not the response I've been getting lately so thanks. :)
Dec 22, 2017 07:00:35 #
Way to defend your calvinistic point of view. I have never met one person who can defend Calvinism without twisting scripture. Of course all does it mean all in your first example. Actually it follows the "o t i" rule - pronounce haughty - whereby words that follow after oti are quotes. Therefore the writer was quoting a document which stated that all the world meaning all their world should we taxed. In your next example you do and Injustice by trying to limit all. And you do it by using no real Greek work at all. Be careful brother.
Dec 22, 2017 09:22:46 #
newcamman wrote:
Way to defend your calvinistic point of view. I ha... (show quote)
I have no idea what you are talking about but if you'd like to make a case that all always means all the people who ever lived and will ever live then by all means....do it.
If you think that the idea that context determines the meaning of words is a weird or unbiblical concept, then explain how you came to believe that.
Are you seriously trying to say that Jesus means that when he's lifted up he'll draw all men whoever lived and will ever live to himself?
If so, what in the context of that passage gives that meaning?
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