canon Lee

Truly this is an opportunity for me to improve on my lighting set up. Some background about me, Mr Shapiro... I own a photo business for over a decade in which I do "picture day" for youth sports clubs. I previously worked for a company that did school pictures and learned something about doing photography that way... I also had a mentor that would answer my many questions about how to do portraiture. I use to do lots of weddings, but no longer do, so I do have knowledge about my camera... I never really had anyone show me how to set up the lighting. I rarely do commercial head and shoulder shots, but do full subject standing poses for the individual child. The ages run from 4~14 yrs old.
My equipment ; 2) 1600WS AlienBees mono lights, 2) 60"white umbrellas, with a 180 degree reflector, Canon 7D, Canon EF 24~105mm F4L, Pocket Wizard plus X radios, CamRanger wifi device to my iPad. I set up a 10'x20' backdrop (20' because I do team pictures averaging 15 or so in the group.....
Even though I have been doing this for some time, I do want to improve and make changes... I think my first question would be about where to place the lights/umbrellas. How far from the individual or group? How high? Distance for the individual from the background? Group placement? How much output from the mono lights? Exposure settings?

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Lee, check out the strobist's web site. https://strobist.blogspot.com/

That site is full of very useful, real world, situations and lighting them.
--Bob

canon Lee

Thanks I will ..

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

Lee, I know you asked Ed, but I do have a couple of questions.
Are these all group photos, or individual photos?

I'm asking, because they will be completely different. Also, part of it will depend on if you are photographing boys, trying to look tough and gritty, or girls who want to look "girly" or do they want to look tough and gritty.

Every situation will be a bit different.

In my experience, for group photos, the main key is to just make sure everyone is lit. For a big group, you're going to go with relatively flat lighting, so you can see every face in every row. Being artsy isn't really a good thing with large groups in team photos.

For individual shots, either portrait lighting, depending on your style, Rembrandt lighting, or butterfly lighting, or even clamshell lighting can work. If they want "Gritty" and "tough" then you light more from the side, and make the lighting ratios a lot higher so you get the strong shadows and a lot of dynamic range. Guys like this, girls don't want every pore highlighted, but maybe some girls, like hockey players, still want to have that "tough" look. I did a volleyball team where the girls all wanted to look as "tough and mean" as possible.

I guess what I'm getting at is, you kind of need to know what they are looking for, then shape the light to give that effect. Cheer teams might want beauty lighting, while a wrestling team will probably beat you up if you go that route. HAHA.

canon Lee

Thanks for your reply... I shoot both teams as well as individual girls & boys. We have one pose for both girls & boys, nothing artsy, just consistent. Keep in mind that some of these kids are young and it is difficult for us to get them to pose, so we keep the pose as simple as possible. We work on a schedule, which is 15 minutes per team to take individuals and team shot, which includes parents getting there on time to register. It usually works out to 2 minutes per child & team shots. We also do individuals full body. The groups ranging from 6~15 individuals, are set up in 3 rows, sitting cross leg, kneeling & standing.
I guess what I am looking for is how to place the lighting. I have never been shown other than youtube how to get the best lighting.. I suppose fashion and head and shoulders are more artsy in that modeling light can show a certain look. My shoots are for the parents, in that their child has to have sharp focus, and a great smile. It is more about the distances and light power that I'm looking to get some input on.

canon Lee

This is the lighting set up I'm currently using for full body individuals.

CO

After going through a lot of books on studio photography I finally found these books by photographer Christopher Grey. They're a gold mine of information. He has a direct approach and gives information that can really be used. There are really interesting chapters like "Specularity and Depth of Light". He even has chapters about how to use a light meter in the studio. Here are the four books of his that I have. If you bring them up on Amazon you can do a "Look Inside" to see some of the pages.

Advanced Lighting Techniques
Studio Lighting Techniques for Photography
Lighting Techniques for Beauty and Glamour Photography
Master Lighting Guide for Portrait Photographers

canon Lee

Hi CO... Actually my work is not that spectacular in that Its not glamour or advanced, but good quality of their child for their parents. My photography is good, but interested in making it better..... As of yet no one has commented on where to place lights....

CO

Christopher Grey covers all of those things in his books. For example, when he has family lined up side to side he will position a strip light box on a boom arm over their heads as a hair light. He will have a softbox or umbrella as a main light. He has diagrams in his books showing the placement of lights, camera, reflectors. He's really big on what he calls bookcase reflectors. He gets large 4'x6' sheets of white foamboard and lashes them together so it can form a V shape. He can then place them in different orientations.

He usually places lights about two feet above the person's head. For butterfly lighting, it will be in line with the camera. For Rembrandt type lighting it will be about 30 degrees off to the side of the camera. That varies with the setup.

You might start with his book: Master Lighting Guide for Portrait Photographers". He even shows comparisons of the same scene shot with different light modifiers.

canon Lee

Thanks for the tips.... I have seen many many videos on YouTube & have read much on line, but in addition to that I would love some personal techniques from our members here.... Many respond with references, but no one that actually does studio lighting has given me any advice. I am getting the pattern here that not many photographers actually do studio work.

CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver

I do lots of studio work. For foolproof lighting of groups, I place the light DIRECTLY over the lens-to-subject axis. This ensures that cross shadows are impossible. For one or two people, I use a small softbox or even beauty dish. For larger groups, a 4x6 softbox or large umbrella. Generally, that light is behind me and higher than me.

If I want an more dramatic look and the groups is small (4-5 people), I might place that 4x6 30 degrees or so of the axis as a main and use a large fill over the camera axis.

The problems with groups and multiple lights is the cross-shadows that are inevitable. IMO, there are portraits and there are group shots. Lighting for group portraits is entirely different than light for group shots - the former is art, the latter is documentary.

CO

Hello CaptainC, I also have a beauty dish that I use (Paul C. Buff 22" white). I know you have a lot of experience. Do you like to use the diffuser sock that stretches over it? If you do use it, do you still use the direct light blocker disc inside the dish? I've used my dish that way and it was difficult to set up. I first had to put the direct light blocker disc with its stem attached inside. I then stretched the diffuser sock over the dish. I've used my beauty dish with and without the sock. The light seems maybe a little softer with it in place. Just wondering how you work with the dish.

CO

I can tell you about exposure settings for studios. With the studio shoots I attend, I set my light meter to ISO 100 and set the shutter speed around 1/125 second. You can go with a faster shutter speed just make sure it's a little below the sync speed of the camera. I then adjust the strobe output level until the meter is giving me a reading of f/8 for the aperture. The reason for f/8 is because that's usually in the range where lenses are their sharpest.

papa Loc: Rio Dell, CA

CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver

Actually, I seldom use the dish in its intended (beauty dish) configuration. I tend to use it more as a soft box with the sock or with a grid.

Used without the sock and with the light blocker in place, the effect is a crisper look - not quit as hard as a bare light, but not soft, either.