greymule Loc: Colorado

One of the great things about our country is the right to think and to believe and to speak as we like.

So we both have different ideas about what our country means to us now; and, we both have different ideas about which direction we want for the future. Both our future and the future for our grandchildren. The future starts today.

One thing that should bring us together is the love of beauty, and our ability to capture that beauty. I know from the posts in this forum that most of the members have not had the blessing to see many of the incredibly beautiful sights of our country. I have posted some images of a small bit of our country's and the world's natural beauty. The fragility of this natural beauty cannot be overstated.

This beauty is our heritage. It does not belong to us. We are simply custodians of our wonderful world of nature, and we are custodians for a minuscule amount of time. It takes only the blink of an eye to destroy forever our natural heritage, which has taken an inestimable amount of time for mother nature, god, or whatever to construct.

Ever wonder how we will be judged by history? It is our responsibility to preserve the gift of our incredible natural beauty. But who actually does the work of preserving our heritage?

The GOP platform is dedicated in large part to destroying the EPA and the Department of Interior. These agencies are the only bodies trying to protect and preserve what relatively little natural beauty we have left. The views in the Grand Canyon are already degraded to the point where vista images are no longer possible without the blue haze of pollution. The Blue Ridge Mountains are nothing but haze from pollution. The industry wants to drill near National Parks, like Arches. Such industrialization will destroy those views even further. Scars on the land and degradation of air and water quality are forever.

Who wins? Who loses?

But why destroy the regulations? Because the corporations of America are dedicated to profits above all else. Money is their life blood. Corporations are not "people". They are soulless legal fictions created to limit individuals' personal responsibility and, more importantly, an individuals' personal liability.

Articles of Incorporation and By-laws of corporations mandate that their officers and directors above all, owe loyalty solely to the corporation. In other words, they are dedicated solely to profits and the continued existence of the corporation. Anything less is a breach of fiduciary duty.

It is no wonder that Corporations in America back the GOP. Regulations for the protection of our fragile natural heritage just "get in the way" of profits. Can we trust corporations to do the right thing? Especially if it's money now versus irreversible damage to our land.

Let's think of a few instances that should give us pause:

BP Gulf Oil Spill

The annual "Dead Zone" of the Gulf of Mexico stretching from Louisiana down the Texas Coast. This underwater wasteland is the world’s second largest dead zone and is caused by drainage from the Mississippi River, which deposits massive amounts of pesticides, fertilizers and animal waste from the central United States.

Three Mile Island Nuclear Meltdown

The Love Canal toxic chemical pollution near Niagara Falls

Libby Asbestos Contamination in Montana

Tennessee Coal Ash Spill

Exxon Valdez Spill

Picher Oklahoma Lead Contamination

These examples are to name just a few. I could name a hundred sites in Colorado alone that are so contaminated they are unfit for human contact.

You claim to want government regulation out of our lives. Really? To whom would we turn for protection? Should we rely on the sensibilities and responsibilities of the corporations? The past is the best predictor of the future. My guess is no, we cannot and must not so rely. Corporations are not red-blooded Americans: They are green-blooded Americans. Money is all that matters.

The corporations have used their money and power to feather their own nests. Oil companies have had record profits for years. Health insurance companies have had record profits for years. They cry out, "no regulations;" we want freedom from "interference" by government in our lives.

To further their cause, they have duped some regular-people Americans into carrying their banner of no regulations in the name of personal freedom. Any and all government interference with whatever we, the corporations, want to do is bad. "Socialism", they cry. And they brainwash some of the populace into the same lock-step belief. Hey, the GOP is for personal freedom. That's what we want, too, say the little guys. Not realizing that the Corporate GOP cry for "no regulations" is NOT in the little guys best interests. Only the best interests of the corporations in the long run. The interests of the uber rich, the so-called top one percent who own forty percent of the wealth in our country do not give one tiny shit about anything but keeping all their money and grabbing as much more as they can. They don't care about you, or your brainwashed perception of "personal freedom."

All this said in order to come to the point that our common interests in photography, capturing nature's beauty, preserving this beauty for our future and the future of our children and their children, should over ride this perverse notion that the government should not regulate for our and everyone's protection.

So, please, before your vote on the basis of no government regulation because the uber rich corporate interests misguidedly call regulation, "socialism", please pause a moment and think where we, as light seekers, beauty seekers and capturers and recorders of natural beauty, would be and will be if we cede our ability to control corporations for your good, my good and everyone's good.

Capitalism is good, but because people and especially corporations are greedy by nature, we need regulations for protection. Don't be fooled by the rich and the servants of the rich disguised as "champions" of the little guys' freedom. It's all about the money. It's not about "Socialism".

Please help rein in the power of the super wealthy corporations for the preservation of our fragile and waning beautiful natural heritage.

Peace.

Rick

gmcase Loc: Galt's Gulch

Sure, if you are willing to stipulate that you will not demand I accept the perverse notion that all of the vast current and future regulations make sense or even work in many cases. In essence, you're saying we can only agree with the beauty of nature and capturing it in common if we hold your opinion. I dare say that is more than a little arrogant.

This is not an olive branch by any stretch of the imagination but an attempt to silence opposition viewpoints by attempting to claim some higher moral ground on the environment.

I do enjoy your photography immensely but not your politics. I am not a Republican, FYI.

micro Loc: Texas

Well stated!

Many who have seen some of my posts would be suprised to know that is was a member of senior/executive management in two global (Fortune 50) corporations over the past 15 years (currently retired). In my professional capacity the decisions I made were based solely on profitaility, not humanity or kindness, or community good, or even employee good. I depended on laws and government regulations to guide/restrict me to socially acceptable activities.
Without govt regulations, corporations would soon become the new aristocracy.
Capitalism is good, but unrestricted capatilism is dangerous.
IMHO.

I hope that this does not insight another name calling arguement.

gym Loc: Athens, Georgia

This is an Olive Branch?????? I really don't wish to see an attack mode.
:>)

sinatraman Loc: Vero Beach Florida, Earth,alpha quaudrant

Many of those "evil" corporations donate much more money to the democrats then they do the gop. Ceo of JP Morgan, huge democrat as well as fund giver. Bill gates ditto. the wall street banks and investment firms ditto, silicon valley ditto.

micro Loc: Texas

Donations to either side is for the same reasons - influence.
selfish or altruistic is a judgment call.

greymule Loc: Colorado

You miss my point.

gmcase Loc: Galt's Gulch

I don't think so but please clarify if you want.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Wow! Your entire diatribe is hardly any less biased or manipulative than that of the corporate masters you warn us of. Many of your facts are simply wrong BTW.

But if I get the gist of what you are saying you are just a good lawyer, undeserving of the lawyer jokes we so love to tell and the disdain that many lawyers through their own lack of ethicacy earn, and you are just trying to help us uneducated, unsophisticated poor lost souls who are foolishly following the big bad wolves to our own slaughter.

Thanks for your ill-conceived advice. BTW I get a real kick out of your comments about the Blue Ridge Mountains, I have been going there all my life, and I know that they are called and always have been called the "Great Smoky Mountains" for a reason.. and it is not the pollution that you describe. Who are you an attorney for anyway, the Sierra Club?

greymule Loc: Colorado

You seem to understand my point. And you have personal experience to boot. Thank you.

greymule Loc: Colorado

Thanks for your ill-conceived advice. BTW I get a real kick out of your comments about the Blue Ridge Mountains, I have been going there all my life, and I know that they are called and always have been called the "Great Smoky Mountains" for a reason.. and it is not the pollution that you describe. Who are you an attorney for anyway, the Sierra Club?[/quote]



Actually, I cheated widows, orphans and handicapped people my entire 35 years of professional life.

As for pollution in the Blue Ridge Mountains (Where my Mom, bless her soul, was born and raised)- Try some facts-



(NPS PHOTO - BOB CHERRY)
View from Bluff Mountain Overlook
Visitors have traveled the Parkway for years enjoying majestic views and distant horizons. Increasingly however these views have become less and less majestic as pollution gets in the way and haze blocks the distant scenes.

There has always been some pollution affecting the views in the Southern Appalachians. In fact the Blue Ridge Mountain’s name originated because of the bluish haze caused by hydrocarbons released by trees into the atmosphere. However, over the last 50 years the visibility in the Southern Appalachians has decreased 40% in the winter and 80% in the summer because of man-made pollutants.

Most of the pollution is caused by power plants, industry and automobiles. These pollutants come from both within and outside the Southern Appalachians, often traveling hundreds of miles. As the winds bring the pollutants to the Blue Ridge the mountains trap and concentrate them. While the decreased views are noticeable, there are also other impacts that cannot be seen.

Acid rain is probably the most familiar type of air pollution problem for most people. Acid rain is just one type of acid deposition, or the introduction of acid from the atmosphere to the ground. It is made up of sulfuric acid, nitric acid and ammonia, which are made from sulfur dioxides (SO2), nitrogen oxides (NOx), and ammonium (NH3) which in turn are emitted from burning fossil fuels, primarily as emissions from electric utilities and motor vehicles, and from agricultural activities.

In addition to acid rain, acids are brought to the ground as snow, dry particles, clouds and fog. Studies in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park have found that average rainfall there is 5-10 times more acidic than normal rain and that clouds covering the mountain tops are often 100 times more acidic still.

Several problems result from this acidification of the Blue Ridge and other areas in the Eastern US. There is increasing evidence that soils are being altered in many areas. So much nitrogen is being deposited that soils are becoming nitrogen saturated. This leads to the loss of calcium in the soil, which affects plant nutrition, and the release of aluminum which can be toxic to plants, fish and other organisms. The accumulation of sulfur and nitrogen in the soil also leads to acidification of streams and lakes as they leach out with flowing water.

Acidification can also cause stress on vegetation resulting in poor crown condition, reduced tree growth and high levels of tree death. Acid deposition has been linked with the decline in red spruce trees, leaching calcium from the tree’s needles and making them more susceptible to freezing. Increased aluminum in the soil may limit a spruce tree’s ability to take up water and nutrients through its roots.

Ozone is another pollutant that the winds carry to the Blue Ridge Parkway. Ground level ozone is created when the nitrogen oxides mix with hydrocarbons in sunlight. Ozone levels at ridgetops in the Smokies have been found to be twice the levels found in Atlanta and Knoxville. In addition to causing health problems in humans, ozone is also harmful to vegetation. Leaves of many species are damaged after exposure to high levels of ozone, with increased damage at higher elevations.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Hmmm that is an interesting read, I have a nephew in Cashiers NC who is a mason and does a little farming, he has not mentioned that his beloved mountains are becoming polluted and unlivable.. I will have to ask him how things are going there. And do you mind sourcing your article... and could you find the conditions of where I live, here in Daytona, I am sure that there is much happening here that I am unaware of, heck I live within a mile of I-95 I wonder how much of that automobile pollution I should be concerned about, I am probably dying and don't even know it... my plants and lush yard, they too probably have only weeks left.

But please source your article and I promise that I will take the time to read it.

Never mind I found it... National Parks Service publication.

greymule Loc: Colorado

[quote=Blurryeyed]Hmmm that is an interesting read, I have a nephew in Cashiers NC who is a mason and does a little farming, he has not mentioned that his beloved mountains are becoming polluted and unlivable.. I will have to ask him how things are going there. And do you mind sourcing your article... and could you find the conditions of where I live, here in Daytona, I am sure that there is much happening here that I am unaware of, heck I live within a mile of I-95 I wonder how much of that automobile pollution I should be concerned about, I am probably dying and don't even know it... my plants and lush yard, they too probably have only weeks left.

But please source your article and I promise that I will take the time to read it.

Never mind I found it... National Parks Service publication.



There you have it.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Nothing would surprise me here we have a bill board on the side of the Florida Turnpike that simply says "WHOCANISUE.COM"

So let me ask what changes have you made in your personal life to mitigate your carbon foot print. As I read the article that you posted I see that the largest contributing factors to the pollution problem it identifies in the Smoky's is both cars and electrical generation. So have you personally made changes in your life to lesson your carbon footprint, do you live in a home that is more than 1500 sq ft? Do you limit your driving to no more than lets say 6000 miles a year, do you limit your use of AC and heating? Do you try to avoid air travel?

Now we know the president's plan and he is busy using the EPA in an effort to achieve his goal, "Under my plan of a cap and trade system electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket", the president was unable to get his cap and trade scheme passed through congress but he has unleashed his regulators in the EPA to accomplish those goals that he set out with. Now I am not so sure that plans such as this one are not extremely regressive in their nature as those struggling at the bottom of our economy can least afford for these changes often driven by people such as yourself, a retired attorney who is concerned about the legacy his generation leaves behind. Now people like me see a struggling economy trying to develop a way in which it can become competitive with the likes of China where there basically is no EPA or environmental regulation, where people live in corporate plantations working for as little as $2/day, and here we want to push an agenda of higher energy costs, deprive our country of the rich fossil fuels under our own soil while exporting our wealth to import from other countries, the president went so far as to make 2 separate grants to Brazil and Mexico for oil exploration and refining as he sees our continued consumption "We want to be your best customer" were his words as he handed over $2 billion to Petrobras. People such as yourself do not want us to exploit our own resources but have no compunction with us paying others to destroy their environments, so much for the globalist conspiracies as at least the president is on record not caring about what happens in the Atlantic off the coast of Brazil... Now the effort is to get rid of coal, limit the production of fossil fuels, limit and frustrate the efforts of the oil producers here in this country, and now the EPA is focusing in on our newest energy boon, natural gas. Go figure.

Let me ask you, what is the plan to rebuild our economy and return well paying jobs and a decent lifestyle to the middle class? Raise their utility bills and the cost of gasoline? Raise the energy prices and regulatory compliance costs of the businesses within the economy that they are depending on for their jobs? Couple these with higher taxes and weaken even further this countries ability to compete in world markets? Just what is the plan, you seem to care about what we hand down to our prosperity, does having the ability to live a lifestyle similar to the one that you and your family have enjoyed account for anything?

I in no way condone or suggest that we rape our environment, to the contrary the environment should be respected and protected, but liberals must bring some commonsense to the table as there are far reaching impacts to the solutions which they believe are their just right to impose on this nation. BTW when you state that;

"Articles of Incorporation and By-laws of corporations mandate that their officers and directors above all, owe loyalty solely to the corporation. In other words, they are dedicated solely to profits and the continued existence of the corporation. Anything less is a breach of fiduciary duty."

That is not true. Corporations do have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders but they also have a moral duty to their society and to the environment, many corporations are good stewards and have invested considerably in stewardship programs, for you to try to make the case that they will simply rape the environment with little regard to cost to the environment and the community in which they exist and function is simply a falsehood used to strengthen the sentiment that you wish to project.

There are no easy answers my friend, but the current green movement is not helping this country in a time of prolonged recession, and it is debatable if the case for the new regulatory environment in this country has not been grossly overstated.


I also wanted to ask if are you aware of just how much land the Federal government already controls? These numbers may not surprise you as I have a suspicion that you already know... These numbers represent the amount of the land in each of the states is owned and controlled by the federal govt. It would seem to me that great concessions have already been made for the preservation of our country's natural beauty.

Nevada : 84.5%
Alaska: 69.1%
Utah: 57.4%
Oregon: 53.1%
Idaho: 50.2%
Arizona: 48.1%
California: 45.3%
Wyoming: 42.3%
New Mexico: 41.8%
Colorado: 36.6%

RTR Loc: West Central Alabama

Greymule has demonized coal, oil, nuclear and solar energy (referenced as lead in his post; lead is needed for the batteries that must be used in solar energy usage).

I guess if we are to have any chance of survival we need to revert to caveman status.