selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

He finally understood it? Probably not.

The important issue is not whether you understand the terms ETTR, EBTR, ERADR and all of the accompanying verbiage that has taken up so much space here.

What you really need to appreciate is how far a scene’s brightness range varies above and below what the camera assumes is middle gray and whether there is a possibility of blowing your highlights in the raw file or JPEG.

There is nothing mysterious about ETTR that can’t be learned by spending a few minutes with RawDigger (link and examples in the next post) and a few images bracketed around a normal exposure (EC+0). You can use a trial copy of RawDigger free for a month but the price is so low that you may see no reason not to buy it.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

You can download RawDigger at https://www.rawdigger.com/]RawDigger

The value in the histogram for the green channel of the EC+0 image spans a range from about 100 to somewhere between 4000 and 8000. The camera shows no highlight warnings and the JPEG image looks OK. The red and blue channels are lower than the green channel which is common with verdant landscapes.

What happens to the green channel if you overexpose by only one stop? The value in the green channel would range from about 200 to somewhere between 8000 and 16000. A little more exposure and the green channel will be blown. The camera's histogram would not be much help since it would tell you that the JPEG version would have blown highlights. The highlight warnings (blinkies) would indicate the same thing.

Exposed at EC+2, the green channel has a spike at the right end at a raw value of about 16000. Even the blue channel has a small spike.

EC+3 is, of course, out of the question.

EC+0 A "normal"€ outdoor scene exposed by spot metering the brick wall at the center of the image.

(Download)

EC+0 RawDigger histogram of the 14-bit values in the corresponding raw file.

(Download)

EC+2 image display

(Download)

EC+2 RawDigger histogram

(Download)

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

PS: This thread is in reply to ETTR and EBTR - I finally understood the opposition... It is a doozy.

BebuLamar

I take that you can't response to his thread either huh? Welcome to the club of those on Rong ignore list.

Bill_de Loc: US

I'm a member.
Still waiting for my hat.

--

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

I got the decoder ring.

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

You certainly did, and we can all get one now! Excellent idea, and there are no membership costs for being in the club!

BebuLamar

Yes there is! You must piss Rong off so that he put you on the list (well but that's the easy thing to do).

BebuLamar

I have a question. Should we ever put anyone on our ignore list? My answer is No. I may not like someone, someone's post, whatsoever but I would not put anyone on my ignore list.
(come to think about it I might want to put on my ignore list those whose advises are right but I don't want to follow like my Doctor for example).

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

There is no membership cost if you are already in the club! I may even have been a founder member, or at least a VIP member!

I'm certainly not an attic dweller, I do have some responses that end up there, but no threads that I initiated. Ron is not on my ignore list. Sure, he's a surly bugger individual but his logic for putting people on the ignore list is questionable, and apparently similar to ChrisT and MTshooter - anyone that challenges his approach. It was interesting that he published his list and his reasons. A badge of honor perhaps!

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

I do put some people on my ignore list, some who have repeatedly posted politically motivated and insulting posts in the main section, which they clearly know should be in the attic. Others that habitually resort to personal insults or attacks in a very blatant and undeserved way. One started PMing me with insults after I disagreed with him, that was easy.

I also, review my list regularly, and if I see the behavior has changed then remove them, at least until the next time.

For me, it is simply a social etiquette thing, one can respectfully disagree, one can reasonably hold strong opinions but express them in a civil manner, sarcasm and humor is fine by me. Don't say something on a social media site - which UHH is - that you wouldn't be willing to say in a public, identifiable situation. And if I get it wrong, I can then apologize!

Putting it crudely: "He that farts in church sits in his own pew!"

On the other hand there are the trolls, gnomes and other mythical creatures that actively and deliberately try to disrupt a conversation. As others have said: "Please don't try to emulate them."

The Ignore feature is clearly very limited in effectiveness, easily circumvented, but may send a message to certain users that their behavior is not appreciated.

Others may feel like saying: "I've been ignored by better people than you!"

BebuLamar

He likes to preach and like most preaches he didn't really say anything wrong but like most preaches they are Boring.

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

We all have our soap boxes to stand on. We all have opinions, some are valid, some less so. For me, it is the style in which they are expressed, and if strongly expressed can people take a come back.

It's a little bit like a friend's child from a couple of decades back that returned home in tears screaming: " Mommy, he hit me back!" She laughed, he learned.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

Although he is by far the least articulate proponent of ETTR, he's not the only only one that I have ticked off to the point of getting on his ignore list.

Here's another example of the same scene that I underexposed by 5 stops. According to the ETTR folks, that should have produced a total disaster. Unlike the EC+2 exposure which was clearly a failure, this image is only slightly less than optimal.

Incidentally, these images were taken with a D610 at about 9 AM. The only JPEG that looked right was the EC+0 version.

There seems to be no visible benefit to ETTR despite the hype.

EC-5 image display

(Download)

EC-5 RawDigger histogram

(Download)

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

For the sake of those who might be weary of seeing examples of washed out ETTR JPEGs turned into viable images through post processing, here is the JPEG image straight out of the camera for the EC-5 version posted above.

(Download)