Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England

Trying to get to the bottom of this ... What ARE the limitations with built-in IN Body Image Stabilization? ... If this be so ... does it explain why there are not a whole lot of tele zooms for Sony and Pentax cameras? Explain!

kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy

IBIS works well with shorter lenses and a lot less well with telephotos because of the amount of movement required. It also works better with smaller sensors because of considerations of movement and mass. Easier to move a smaller sensor less...

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

Stabilization is limited by current technology and cost. Companies want to stay current or slightly ahead in VR. VR will gradually improve, but it is not the main goal of lens makers. If Canon offered no telephoto lenses with stabilization, customers would start looking at other brands, so stabilization is important in that regard. As for the other companies not offering many telephoto lenses, consider what's involved in designing and making one. They must start from scratch with the body, mechanics, motors, and glass. Then they have to set up production lines.

jackpinoh Loc: Kettering, OH 45419

1. Lens stabilization systems generally involve vertical and horizontal angular movements of the lens/camera system. The lens stabilization system operates to provide a non-moving image circle on the sensor.
2. IBIS systems can accommodate vertical and horizontal angular movements as well as vertical and horizontal linear movements and angular movement around the lens longitudinal axis. IBIS operates by moving the sensor to counteract lens/camera motion.
3. The data required to compute the required adjustment in either system comes from lens or camera sensors, and the computations and correction commands are performed by the camera processor.
4. It is possible to integrate the operation of both lens-based stabilization and IBIS for improved stabilization performance.
5. Stabilization systems improve over time. As sensor, processor, and control actuators improve, so does stabilization performance.
6. Small sensor cameras (i.e., micro 4/3) will always have an IBIS performance advantage over large sensor cameras (i.e., FF) because, other things being equal, small masses are easier to move quickly than large masses.

LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field

Here you go: http://www.ibis.com/northamerica/index.en.shtml

Morning Star Loc: West coast, North of the 49th N.

The Olympus (4/3) and Sony (FF) 5-axis stabilization seem to be able to overcome that performance (dis)advantage and you get superior stabilization in both.
See: https://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/12/17/comparison-olympus-sonys-5-axis-stabilization-work/

Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England

Jerry ... thanks for your rather dramatic presentation - to show the structure differences in glass ....

Other than the fact, the one on the left is a tripod-mount barrel, and the one on the right is a hand-held ...

I'm deficient enough in my knowledge of lens structure to see the exact definition this is intended to show.

I'm assuming one is more pertinent to ILIS and the other is neglecting that element ... am I right?

If so - the Tripod Mount glass, I assume - is the one without ILIS .... do I have this right, Jerry?

kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy

I have a Sony A7Rll. Beyond 200mm the IBIS effectiveness diminishes rapidly. At shorter focal lengths it works quite well.

wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado

Olympus indicates their IBIS is 5.5 stops. And with either the 12-100mm f4 Pro or the 300mm f4 Pro lenses with their in-lense IS, one more stop of stabilization is added (6.5 stops total). Olympus indicates the 6.5 stops is their limit - until they can learn how to compansate for the turning of the earth. In other words, the earth is the IS limiting factor at least for Olympus.

Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England

Ahhhh, WD ... is that sound reasoning, or just a bluff ... ?

What does - As the World Turns ... got to do with max stabilization ....

I don't get that, at all ....

Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England

Ky ... I think you wrote that, before, on another of my threads ....

The point I'm trying to make, here ... is why does it change at 200mm?

What makes THAT the Turning Point?

Is there a formula, or special factor, at play, or what?

wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado

It's not BS. The earth is turning at ~1000 mph at equator on a circular path. Gyroscopes, once set, stay in that position they were set at. Relative to the surface of the earth on it's circular movement, the gyroscope "moves". Hence, the IBIS is limited by the earth's movement.

Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England

Yeah, but, WD ...

Nothing inside a camera which incorporates 5-Axis Stabilization - is moving at 1000 mph ...

Come off it, Mate!

mcveed Loc: Kelowna, British Columbia (between trips)

If you want a formula you'll have to get in touch with an Olympus engineer. The basic reason is that the design of the camera and sensor limit the range of movement that the sensor can make. So it can compensate for the very small movements of the image that occur with wide to short tele lenses. With a much longer lens the camera shake that causes small shifts in an image from a wide angle lens causes much larger shifts in the image. These larger movements of the image in the viewfinder, and on the sensor, cannot be fully compensated for by IBIS. Stabilization that is based closer to the front of the lens is required for these larger movements, thus In-lens image stabilization. The Olympus E-M1 MkII has a setting for switching off the IBIS and deferring to the ILIS whenever the focal length goes beyond (whatever you set it to). On two of their PRO lenses the two systems will work together (12-100 f4 and 300 f4) to give a total of 6.5 stops of stabiliztaion.

Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England

Interesting, Don ... the 12-100 (effective range to 200) works WITH IBIS, and really doesn't need to, as it applies its own stop. Since it never tops 200mm ... why would this be necessary?

That is - if IBIS has a default range from 10 to 200? ...