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What happened to photography?
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Oct 1, 2017 08:01:04   #
spdmn54 Loc: Avon Lake, Ohio
 
I too used to love film photography, I have switched to digital, but I don't consider it "cheating ",not if typy still take the time to compose your shot. Challenge yourself, shoot in full manual mode. You'll find it is like shooting a film camera. You'll find it rewarding. Just my thoughts anyway

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Oct 1, 2017 08:01:07   #
spdmn54 Loc: Avon Lake, Ohio
 
I too used to love film photography, I have switched to digital, but I don't consider it "cheating ",not if typy still take the time to compose your shot. Challenge yourself, shoot in full manual mode. You'll find it is like shooting a film camera. You'll find it rewarding. Just my thoughts anyway

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Oct 1, 2017 08:01:39   #
jakeofuk Loc: Chichester,West Sussex,England
 
You cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear. No matter how much manipulation.

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Oct 1, 2017 09:09:07   #
photonutt1970
 
While I tend to agree with most of what you had said , I think that digital allowed those of us who appreciate and understand what a good shot is can tweek it even more , it still takes a special eye to SEE what a good photograph is, so I see it as a bonus NOT cheating, just something to think about, and just so you know I started with film as well about 30 years ago

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Oct 1, 2017 09:23:34   #
LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field
 
It evolved.... much like automobiles, computers (what's a typewriter?), telephonic communication (remember party lines?), and home entertainment (remember "Father Knows Best" in black and white?). The device I'm using is the size of a small book and has (currently) seven full length novels on it with capacity for many more.

Lots of things have changed--not just photography.

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Oct 1, 2017 09:53:27   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
canon Lee wrote:
I think that in time there will be no need to learn to drive or learn anything about photography.


I disagree, maybe need might decline, but there is a place for both and varied purposes for both. There is always going to be a need for photography. Be it for capturing memories or selling baked beans. You might as well say, there is no need for music or books.

I have never seen this written down for photography but there is a journey.

Stage one is learning the mechanics, what the camera can do how light works the kinds of light that can be applied.
Stage two the vision where you take the knowledge gained from stage one and apply it to get the result you want. You know where you want to get to and how to get it.
Stage three is deciding on what we want to say.
we are authors really and that is kind of hard, it's probably easier to be told what story to tell. It helps to have clients :)
The really difficult thing is to make your own narrative that people are interested in following.

Does that make sense ?

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Oct 1, 2017 10:25:57   #
karno Loc: Chico ,California
 
Technology is here either we embrace it or we miss out.
Ansel Adams and many others got ill from all the chemicals they used, I did too.
Film defiantly helped me become a more contemplative photographer.
But digital has allowed me to capture things I have always wanted to capture.
I remember standing on a volcano with 4x5 camera trying to catch star trails
Came home developed the film and was so excited I could see streaks.

If I could still get around by horse I wouldn't
If I could go back to the time when cells phones and computers did not exists. I would give it a long thought, but in the end probably not.
The best of luck and enjoyment to all!!

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Oct 1, 2017 10:29:04   #
SusanFromVermont Loc: Southwest corner of Vermont
 
blackest wrote:
I disagree, maybe need might decline, but there is a place for both and varied purposes for both. There is always going to be a need for photography. Be it for capturing memories or selling baked beans. You might as well say, there is no need for music or books.

I have never seen this written down for photography but there is a journey.

Stage one is learning the mechanics, what the camera can do how light works the kinds of light that can be applied.
Stage two the vision where you take the knowledge gained from stage one and apply it to get the result you want. You know where you want to get to and how to get it.
Stage three is deciding on what we want to say.
we are authors really and that is kind of hard, it's probably easier to be told what story to tell. It helps to have clients :)
The really difficult thing is to make your own narrative that people are interested in following.

Does that make sense ?
I disagree, maybe need might decline, but there is... (show quote)

Yes! It is nice to see such a simple yet accurate summary of photographic progression.

One thing you did not specifically mention when speaking to the idea we won't need photography any more - the need to fulfill a creative drive. Many just want snapshots, but there are also many who are using their camera as an instrument or tool for expressing their vision and doing it in a unique way, as art. With the mention of music and books, I understand you meant something along those lines. But in that imagined future where people will no longer need to know how to drive or take pictures, it is also possible that computers will relieve them of the need to cook, and so many other things that take learning to do. However, the need for creative minds will still be there, because computers put out whatever is put in... [Luckily artificial intelligence has not yet [!] been able to truly think for itself...]

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Oct 1, 2017 10:31:41   #
LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field
 
SusanFromVermont wrote:
Yes! It is nice to see such a simple yet accurate summary of photographic progression.

One thing you did not specifically mention when speaking to the idea we won't need photography any more - the need to fulfill a creative drive. Many just want snapshots, but there are also many who are using their camera as an instrument or tool for expressing their vision and doing it in a unique way, as art. With the mention of music and books, I understand you meant something along those lines. But in that imagined future where people will no longer need to know how to drive or take pictures, it is also possible that computers will relieve them of the need to cook, and so many other things that take learning to do. However, the need for creative minds will still be there, because computers put out whatever is put in... [Luckily artificial intelligence has not yet [!] been able to truly think for itself...]
Yes! It is nice to see such a simple yet accurate... (show quote)


We have too much artificial intelligence already.


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Oct 1, 2017 10:44:57   #
SusanFromVermont Loc: Southwest corner of Vermont
 
machia wrote:

Digital is real . It has elevated photography to a new art form in many ways . The speed of looking at what you just shot is phenomenal .
But let's all be honest about something . For new photographers only knowing digital , to acheive what they can do with digital , if handed a film SLR , they would need to shoot no less than 4 or 5 rolls of 36 exposure film .
I used to average a good 10-15 % good shots out of a roll of 36 , and that took years to acheive .
Technology marches on , but in the end you need only a good eye to elevate this hobby to an art form . Without that you can hold in your hand a digital medium format LEICA body and lens for $30,000.00 and it would be meaningless . A trained eye is the ultimate " technological tool " .
br Digital is real . It has elevated photography ... (show quote)

I agree that a "trained eye" is important for accomplishing photographic objectives.

If "new" photographers means just learning, your statement about needing 4-5 rolls of film is probably accurate. If those photographers are simply part of the new generation, but are already skilled in photography, your prediction may not be true. Of course, this assumes they also are proficient in the use of a film camera and understand how the mediums differ. Those photographers would need a lot less film, although they may very well take more images because of the lack of immediate feedback that a digital camera provides!

My point is that a photographer often needs to take a shot without time to think too much and it has to be good because that event/experience/composition/light will not repeat itself. So good digital photographers also have learned the skills needed to capture their images and get it "right" the first time!

[Note: I do not include myself in that category yet! My skills are still at the level where I often miss the shot I want because my abilities and reaction time are still "under construction".]

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Oct 1, 2017 10:56:18   #
PhotoKurtz Loc: Carterville, IL
 
SharpShooter wrote:
Swamp, Welcome to the Hog!
BTW, there's a simple test for reality.
Hang your camera around your neck and look in the mirror!
If you see yourself, you're real.
If you don't see yourself, your not a real photographer!!!
SS



Hear! Hear! Happy Sunday. Go to your room.

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Oct 1, 2017 11:38:27   #
machia Loc: NJ
 
canon Lee wrote:
I think that in time there will be no need to learn to drive or learn anything about photography.

If we are making ourselves obsolete , then why not just exist in a virtual world ? LOL
Of course I'm taking this to its ultimate extreme , but think about it .

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Oct 1, 2017 12:25:12   #
Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN
 
Techniques and tools have changed. The way photographs are experienced has also changed. The issue of "manipulation" has been going on since the beginning of the medium. Gustave Le Grey used combination printing to render a scene with sky and sea with clouds in the 1850s. At the time emulsions were highly blue sensitive and has no red sensitivity and the sky would be white if the exposure was made for the ground. So two plates were created one for the sky and the other for the foreground.

Henry Peach Robinson and Oscar Rejlander took things a step further and created allegorical history painting like images using multiple images to create the final image. Picorialists highly "manipulated" there images through soft focus lenses and printing processes such as gum bichromate. They often worked these images with retouching to make them as painterly as possible. Early Soviet government photographs were retouched to remove people from photos of the revolution and photos with Stalin after they had a falling out with him.

Man Ray used Solarization to create his surrealist portraits in the 1920s This was achieve by turning on the lights during film or print development giving the emulsion a second exposure during the developing process. This caused a partial reversal of tones. Jerry Ueslmann creates his surrealist images by combing multiple negatives in the darkroom. He started using this process in the 1960s and continues to use it in the present. Gregory Crewdson creates his images through constructed and physically altered scenes. He also does some combination work in photoshop to achieve the final image.

There are many more examples of altering photographs throughout photography's history. These are only a few of the best examples.

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Oct 1, 2017 12:43:02   #
wj cody Loc: springfield illinois
 
Hank Radt wrote:
In the darkroom, you can reduce, crop, dodge, burn, adjust exposure contrast and colors and... These terms are not "computerized language," they are photographic language. Conceptually, I don't see a lot of difference between a negative and a RAW image, nor between darkroom processing and software processing. In either case, the photographer composes a shot, captures it, and then processes it to get a desired effect.

What separates great photography from the rest is the skill of the photographer: his or her vision and, of course, experience, be it composition or processing. Don't get me wrong, I'm far from a great photographer, but I can appreciate Henry Cartier-Bresson, Matthew Brady, Man Ray (take a look at some of his photos if you want to see some interesting pre-Photoshop compositions), Ansel Adams, Dorothea Lange (who caught Albert Einstein sticking his tongue out) - she said "A camera is a device that teaches people to see without a camera," which personally resonates.

When cameras appeared, painters probably looked at photographers as cheating. I suspect that some in the different schools - classicists, romanticists, impressionists, cubists, surrealists, modernists, etc. questioned the capabilities of the others.

Some of the great classical painters manipulated subjects in their work for purely commercial reasons, driven by the fact that their sponsors had very specific views of what they would pay for (a lot of what is recognized as great portraiture is very flattering to the paying subject...). And the truly great artists were almost completely unconstrained by the actual subject: take a look at Picasso's Guernica, then compare it with photos of the bombed town.

Technology advances, and art along with it. Doesn't mean the old is bad - there are still painters. Nor does it mean the new is bad either.

Just different.
In the darkroom, you can reduce, crop, dodge, burn... (show quote)


the difference is simple - in film photography it is the photographer or the photographer's lab tech who is actively determining the final outcome of the print. in film photography the print is the final outcome of the initial action of taking the picture. in digital imaging it is whatever computer program which is being used that determines the final outcome if any print is made. if not, then it is a waste of time.

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Oct 1, 2017 12:49:08   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
wj cody wrote:
the difference is simple - in film photography it is the photographer or the photographer's lab tech who is actively determining the final outcome of the print. in film photography the print is the final outcome of the initial action of taking the picture. in digital imaging it is whatever computer program which is being used that determines the final outcome if any print is made. if not, then it is a waste of time.


It isn't the computer program that determines the outcome, it is the person actively using the computer program as a tool, just as the darkroom is a tool.

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