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TIFF vs CR2 files
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Aug 29, 2017 15:30:46   #
bajadreamer (a regular here)
 
Are there changes or post processing, that can be performed in DPP4 on RAW files that cannot be performed on TIFF files? Same question for Photoshop.

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Aug 29, 2017 15:50:41   #
CHG_CANON (a regular here)
 
Not sure what you're looking for specifically... Regarding DPP, this software can work on TIFF and JPEG, but it exists specifically to process Canon's RAW files being the CR2 files created by the EOS body. The noise reduction on CR2 files is more effective than the Adobe products acting on the same CR2 source files. If you go through the process to download lens profiles for EF / EFS lenses, the DPP software can also be instructed to apply adjustments to the CR2. DPP can then be used to create 16-bit TIFF files from the CR2 source for subsequent processing in Photoshop and similar tools.

You can also simply start with the CR2 files in a software capable of editing this RAW format, such as PS, LR, etc. This is a time and complexity saving approach. You can't corrupt a RAW file so there isn't a risk of using non Canon software on the RAW file. The differences are subtle when not using DPP in your workflow and they are noticeable really only at higher ISOs, if at all.

REF: "Are there changes or post processing, that can be performed in DPP4 on RAW files that cannot be performed on TIFF files?" ANS - No, there's nothing unique to DPP that can't be accomplished in Photoshop.

REF: "Same question for Photoshop." ANS - Yes, Photoshop is light-years beyond DPP in terms of digital image processing. So different, they really aren't a comparison. That's why PS cost at least $120 annually via subscription and DPP is provided free with the purchase of a camera or providing an EOS body serial number to download for free.

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Aug 29, 2017 15:59:14   #
rehess (a regular here)
 
bajadreamer wrote:
Are there changes or post processing, that can be performed in DPP4 on RAW files that cannot be performed on TIFF files? Same question for Photoshop.

The CR2 file essentially contains what the TIFF file contains plus information about the process of recording the data, information which is said to make the PP process work better.

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Aug 29, 2017 16:06:34   #
bajadreamer (a regular here)
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Not sure what you're looking for specifically... Regarding DPP, this software can work on TIFF and JPEG, but it exists specifically to process Canon's RAW files being the CR2 files created by the EOS body. The noise reduction on CR2 files is more effective than the Adobe products acting on the same CR2 source files. If you go through the process to download lens profiles for EF / EFS lenses, the DPP software can also be instructed to apply adjustments to the CR2. DPP can then be used to create 16-bit TIFF files from the CR2 source for subsequent processing in Photoshop and similar tools.

You can also simply start with the CR2 files in a software capable of editing this RAW format, such as PS, LR, etc. This is a time and complexity saving approach. You can't corrupt a RAW file so there isn't a risk of using non Canon software on the RAW file. The differences are subtle when not using DPP in your workflow and they are noticeable really only at higher ISOs, if at all.

REF: "Are there changes or post processing, that can be performed in DPP4 on RAW files that cannot be performed on TIFF files?" ANS - No, there's nothing unique to DPP that can't be accomplished in Photoshop.

REF: "Same question for Photoshop." - ANS - Yes, Photoshop is light-years beyond DPP in terms of digital image processing. So different, they really aren't a comparison. That's why PS is at least $120 annual via subscription and DPP is provided free with the purchase of a camera or providing an EOS body serial number to download for free.
Not sure what you're looking for specifically... R... (show quote)


Thank you. I should have been more specific. I do use PS for much of my PP work, but I use DPP4 to convert my RAW images. I usually make preliminary cropping, brightness, color saturation, and noise reduction in DPP4. For most of my images, that is as far as I go. I then covert the images to TIFF files for storage and possibly a later return for further work in PS.


I discovered that it is also possible to remove small, simple spots/defects using DPP4. That would be a big time saver for cleaning up beaks of birds, etc. When I try to do this, I can use the "dust removal" tool on TIFF files but not on the RAW file. On the other hand I cannot change the brightness, etc on the TIFF file but can on the RAW. That is just in DPP4. I know I can do it all in PS, but would like to avoid that step on many of my images.

Am I doing something wrong that will not allow all the tools in DPP4 to be used on both TIFF and RAW files?

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Aug 29, 2017 16:36:20   #
bajadreamer (a regular here)
 
I actually found my answer. In DPP 4 the image, be it RAW or TIFF, has to be in the X 1 view. The Stamp tool palette will not be active in any other viewing mode.

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Aug 29, 2017 16:44:00   #
CHG_CANON (a regular here)
 
bajadreamer wrote:
Thank you. I should have been more specific. I do use PS for much of my PP work, but I use DPP4 to convert my RAW images. I usually make preliminary cropping, brightness, color saturation, and noise reduction in DPP4. For most of my images, that is as far as I go. I then covert the images to TIFF files for storage and possibly a later return for further work in PS.


I discovered that it is also possible to remove small, simple spots/defects using DPP4. That would be a big time saver for cleaning up beaks of birds, etc. When I try to do this, I can use the "dust removal" tool on TIFF files but not on the RAW file. On the other hand I cannot change the brightness, etc on the TIFF file but can on the RAW. That is just in DPP4. I know I can do it all in PS, but would like to avoid that step on many of my images.

Am I doing something wrong that will not allow all the tools in DPP4 to be used on both TIFF and RAW files?
Thank you. I should have been more specific. I d... (show quote)


I've used different versions of DPP for more than 10 years, but I'm not an expert to the extent needed to address your questions on why DPP can do this on RAW and not that on TIFF. I previously worked more like you've described using DPP almost exclusively, but over the past 3ish years I've converted to Lightroom for complex image processing including cropping. I send a 16-bit full sized image over to LR and perform image clean-up on dust and such in LR and as well as the cropping and leveling, where needed.

I shoot to the right in my RAW capture so adjusting exposure is performed in DPP as well as lens profiles, noise reduction, saturation adjustment, white balance, global sharpening and possibly picture style from Standard in camera to Landscape in DPP. I use the auto function as well in the Gamma Adjustments. This helps me judge the level of exposure adjustment depending on how much the software considers the highlights need to be reduced or the shadows 'opened'. I also override the auto software choices, where needed. The results are then saved as 16-bit TIFFs.

LR is much more sophisticated and PS even more so. The finishing for me now occurs in the Adobe products or a Topaz module or few. Cropping and leveling horizons, to me at least, is much more efficient in LR as is the process of cloning and healing minor spots, etc. There's not a wrong or right approach if the results are what the should be given the initial quality of the source CR2. The question comes down to efficiently for the necessary result. For me, when working against a real deadline, I skip the DPP step having invested a good deal of time in creating LR presents for my RAW processing.

Another driver in my workflow is that I continue to use the now out-of-date LR5 and will continue to do so until I change to a camera body this software cannot support for RAW processing. A consideration of DPP vs my LR5/PSE set-up is that LR5 doesn't pick up profiles from Adobe for new lenses. This can impact my lens choice for work where I'll know the RAW files will be processed directly from LR5. This point is really only a minor concern as I shoot mostly with Canon lenses released before Adobe stopped updating LR5.6 in 2015.

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Aug 29, 2017 17:17:56   #
bajadreamer (a regular here)
 
Thank you for your time and response. My "fuss factor" is pretty low so often I am satisfied with the simple changes I can make in DPP. Although I do have PS and LR I find my interest in learning their capabilities lagging. I use PS mostly to create layers and remove distractions from the backgrounds.

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Aug 29, 2017 17:20:15   #
Peterff
 
bajadreamer wrote:
Are there changes or post processing, that can be performed in DPP4 on RAW files that cannot be performed on TIFF files? Same question for Photoshop.


Yes.

TIFF is a final form bitmap (pixel level format) whether 8 bit, 16bit, compressed or uncompressed. Raw (.CR2) takes the original as captured data prior to transofrmation to a bit map and allows for many more parameters of adjustment prior to conversion to a bit map, TIFF, JPEG, PNG, or whatever.

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Aug 29, 2017 17:58:05   #
Diverhank
 
You must have a lot of storage space...I found TIFF file so large compared to RAW so why not store RAW files?

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Aug 29, 2017 18:46:20   #
bajadreamer (a regular here)
 
Sometimes I do store as RAW. Many of my photos are taken during travels and so I end up just deleting my discards and then copy and paste to an external HD (s). I then will edit them and discard many more when I get home. I should be more consistent with my storage techniques but old habits sometimes die hard.

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Aug 29, 2017 18:49:12   #
Peterff
 
Diverhank wrote:
You must have a lot of storage space...I found TIFF file so large compared to RAW so why not store RAW files?


MPEG say 5 to 10MB, raw say 20 to 30+MB, 8 bit TIFF say 50MB, 16 bit TIFF say 100+MB. Keep the raw, and you can recreate anything else.

I do have a lot of storage, approx. 24 TB, but I would seldom create and store a 16 bit TIFF.

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Aug 29, 2017 18:57:48   #
bajadreamer (a regular here)
 
Peterff wrote:
MPEG say 5 to 10MB, raw say 20 to 30+MB, 8 bit TIFF say 50MB, 16 bit TIFF say 100+MB. Keep the raw, and you can recreate anything else.

I do have a lot of storage, approx. 24 TB, but I would seldom create and store a 16 bit TIFF.


That is useful information. I did not realize 16 bit TIFFs were that large.

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Aug 30, 2017 06:06:34   #
kymarto
 
bajadreamer wrote:
Are there changes or post processing, that can be performed in DPP4 on RAW files that cannot be performed on TIFF files? Same question for Photoshop.


The raw file contains much more information than the TIFF, even if you save the TIFF as 16 bit, and on top of that it is much smaller. Of course the catch is that it is not an image file, but rather a potential image file, and so cannot be viewed or worked upon until it is "imagized", for lack of a better term. I NEVER get rid of raw files of images that I have made into TIFFs.

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Aug 30, 2017 06:48:41   #
lamiaceae (a regular here)
 
bajadreamer wrote:
Are there changes or post processing, that can be performed in DPP4 on RAW files that cannot be performed on TIFF files? Same question for Photoshop.


In addition to all the answers you already have, I'd like to add that I often do most of my PP with ACR and then finish up sizing and cropping with with Ps. Not a big Lr fan. But I can see why it is popular.

I have not tried using the Pentax software that came with my camera so I'm not sure if there could be any improvement by uploading my Raw camera files with it or not. Right now I use the Ps loader from my camera to HDD.

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Aug 30, 2017 07:34:26   #
cthahn
 
If you start with a RAW file, you can most anything in LR or PS. Once you convert to another file format, you are limited. If learn and understand LR, you can go back to a RAW file anytime.

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