neon colored t shirts: I do picture day for youth sports clubs and would like any suggestions about the hot spots i get when some of the teams T-shirts are neon colored. using ; Canon...

canon Lee

I do picture day for youth sports clubs and would like any suggestions about the hot spots i get when some of the teams T-shirts are neon colored.
using ; Canon 7D, EF 24~105, 2 alien bees mono 1600W lights. Manual, F8~16mm, 100% ISO I am wondering if a ND filter would help. Any suggestions would be helpful.

James C Loc: Southern California

Hi Lee,
It would help if you posted an example for us to analyze. I assume you're using some sort of soft box on the lights?

I've done a lot of portrait shots for youth sports teams and (thankfully) haven't encountered this problem. We use a much simpler set up. Just a couple of off camera speed lights that we run through a couple of white umbrellas. Not the most sophisticated set up but it works every time.

Sounds frustrating, but I'm sure somebody here will help to figure out whats going on.

canon Lee

James C wrote:

Hi Lee, br It would help if you posted an example ... (show quote)

I am using umbrellas . note the lack of detail in the shirt . this is not post edited nor cropped.

James C Loc: Southern California

Yep I see it.....really weird.
What kind of metering are you doing? Have you tried a different type?

canon Lee

James C wrote:

Yep I see it.....really weird.
What kind of metering are you doing? Have you tried a different type?

well I don't use a meter. I shoot in Manual mode and use mono lights/umbrella combo. I under expose the whites, ( using the histogram), mostly because I shoot young kids that have little color in their faces. I mainly use LR to manipulate the highlights and shadows. I was thinking of using a ND filter, in the hopes it would take out the hot spots. Im big on detail in the photos. Hoping some other photographers would have a recommendation.

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

canon Lee wrote:

well I don't use a meter. I shoot in Manual mode and use mono lights/umbrella combo. I under expose the whites, ( using the histogram), mostly because I shoot young kids that have little color in their faces. I mainly use LR to manipulate the highlights and shadows. I was thinking of using a ND filter, in the hopes it would take out the hot spots. Im big on detail in the photos. Hoping some other photographers would have a recommendation.

I admit to having little experience with ND filters. I don't understand why using an ND filter would smooth out hot spots better than using a smaller aperture or faster shutter would

cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA

Just a (VERY) crazy idea! Give a polarizer a shot and see if it helps. If I get the chance I'll do the same as I often have issues with those neon shirts in general shooting, depending upon the lighting. The ND posts made this idea pop into my head! Best of luck.

canon Lee

cjc2 wrote:

Just a (VERY) crazy idea! Give a polarizer a shot and see if it helps. If I get the chance I'll do the same as I often have issues with those neon shirts in general shooting, depending upon the lighting. The ND posts made this idea pop into my head! Best of luck.

Let me know what you find out.

claytonsummers Loc: Orange County, CA

Here's a possibility: the neon shirts are absorbing the blue and UV light from the flash and glowing in the yellow green region. You might try putting filters on the flash to warm up the flash color and block the blue and UV. This might allow you to tone down the glow from the shirts.

Best regards,

Clayton Summers

canon Lee

claytonsummers wrote:

Here's a possibility: the neon shirts are absorbing the blue and UV light from the flash and glowing in the yellow green region. You might try putting filters on the flash to warm up the flash color and block the blue and UV. This might allow you to tone down the glow from the shirts.

Best regards,

Clayton Summers

Hi Clayton. I am using 2 mono lights not on camera flash . I don't custom white balance as the flesh tones look ok. Are you suggesting to try UV filters not ND or Polarized filters?

GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City

Interesting problem.
I was curious myself and found this tread: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3250447
And the following post on THIS THREAD:

"Robert, you are going to have a hard time with this, and whoever is reproducing your photos will have an
even harder time. It helps to think about what is really going on with fluorescent (aka neon) colors and why
they look as colorful as they do. Fluorescent pigments take light from the bluer ends of the spectrum,
(including ultraviolet), absorb them and re-emit the energy in longer (redder) wavelengths. The net result is
that you can have an object that seems to reflect more light than it receives. In terms of digital imaging
this is a little like being able to move the RGB sliders past 255.

Also, to make matters worse, it's quite possible that you are capturing something close to the color you
want, but that it is falling outside the gamut of your monitor. It would be really interesting to take a spectrophotometer reading from the guitar to see what is really going on. "

Another HERE that sounds likely:

"The key is to start with the right lighting—you need to make the colours fluoresce, and for that you need something that gives off a significant amount of ultraviolet light. Without a UV source—if you use tungsten light or a UV-filtered daylight source, all you'll get is the reflective colours. You need the colours these dyes and pigments emit when they absorb UV.

As Phil points out in the comments, the emitted colour may overwhelm the sensor. Keeping the UV source secondary (say, a black light bulb or tube you can move toward or away from the subject independently of the visible light source) should allow you to balance the reflected and emitted light satisfactorily. You do want the colour exaggerated, but you don't want to lose all of the detail in the process."

As Clayton pointed out above, in your case, could it be too much UV hitting the bright green shirt, causing it to be overexposed?

Don't know how accurate this info is, but it's a possibility,I guess.

larryepage Loc: North Texas area

And cotton glows in ultraviolet light regardless of the dyes used. So you may be getting a double whammy of emission from the neon colors and from the cotton. Don't know that it would add a lot to the exposure, but it might be just enough to trigger the problem you are seeing.

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

canon Lee wrote:

I am using umbrellas . note the lack of detail in the shirt . this is not post edited nor cropped.

It looks to me as though the lower body is shaded by the ball and arms. I would lower the lights - try to make them close to waist level - and reduce exposure a tad as a first step.

claytonsummers Loc: Orange County, CA

canon Lee wrote:

Hi Clayton. I am using 2 mono lights not on camera flash . I don't custom white balance as the flesh tones look ok. Are you suggesting to try UV filters not ND or Polarized filters?

Yes, UV filters, but on the lights, not the camera. Something like this, perhaps:

http://us.rosco.com/en/product/uv-filter

ronz Loc: Florida

Some of the jockeys are getting small amounts of the neon on their outfits and I use an adjustable polarizer. I bump up my ISO a bit but of course I use no flash for action shots and posed using only fill flash, not enough to cause a flare. Trying to stay away from the ND at this point.