Tim Stapp Loc: Mid Mitten

More "event.". As BK knows, I like to shoot traditional film, primarily 4x5 black and white. I am currently working on a project for 2019 that would be shooting owners and their steam traction engines. Many of these individuals have invested more into their steam tractor than my home is worth. Often multi generation.

My question regards negative control. I know that I am acquiring additional double dark slide film holders, but with the potential of 50 plus individual subjects (just the steam traction engines) plus others (antique tractors): How to keep individual shots recorded, catalogued, etc? Or, should I look for a roll film hoxer and keep track individual shots on sequential rolls?

Given that I know of at least two individuals that have experience in this area, I look first here for suggestions.

Oh, the event covers four days. I may practice at some smaller events prior to committing to the "show."

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

I wish I could be of more help here. We were not super high tech, and kept all the film in film sleeves, in labeled envelopes. Each wedding was developed individually, so nothing got messed up. (didn't want B&G to think they had wedding crashers, if they ended up with photos of someone else's guests)

Your project, being multiple people, days, and subjects, would be a challenge. I guess if I had to guess...LOL.... I would probably think of doing it the same way, and keep VERY particular records of who was in each shot in what order, and use the old multiple envelope method to try to avoid confusion.

BermBuster Loc: Hi Desert S.Cal

Tim, don't know if this would help... but what if you took a digital picture first, you could even use your cell phone. Then when you put the digital pics on your computer, you could verify the order or sequence was right when you reviewed your prints?

Did a family reception once, about 300 people. Had to do individuals & each family. We took a dry erase board and had each family write their names- hold it in front - that was our first shot... sure helped in the sorting. But, we used digital.
Best of Luck, sounds like a fun project!

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

OOH OOH, Tim, that sounds like the method we used to distinguish grade schools for that 50th class reunion we did last year (or the year before? I've slept since then) Dry erase board........or even hold up paper with bold marker with the name on it for the first shot.

Kind of like the barcode systems now for school photos. "scary, I've had a bit of an "inkling" to get into school photos. Jim (Margo's Dad) made a fortune in New York and New Jersey. Starting to hate my day job. A fortune would be nice ..... ha

Tim Stapp Loc: Mid Mitten

All great suggestions. I am seriously considering the white board/digital shot to record name and photograph.

Now, as of right now, I have 9 sheet film holders - 18 shots on 4x5 film without reloading. At that point it's into a changing tent, keep track of negatives (this is where the digital record comes into play) downloading into light tight film bag/box and reload. I don't intend to develop on site.

Because I don't see printing much over 11x14, would it make more sense to go with a roll film holder on the view camera? I really don't want to shoot 135 because the draw would be the period view camera matching the subject period.

I still have two years to think this through and possibly do a small meet to practice before jumping in.

I had wanted to do it this next year or next, but my parents in law are having their 60th anniversary this year and I have a wedding shoot the same weekend next year.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

I think the white board, a standard, even cell phone shot, of the white board sign with the subjects so you don't waste valuable sheet film, is the way to go.
I actually thought of making an antique looking wooden camera like my 8x10 portrait camera, and hide a DSLR in it, and just use a remote trigger to fire it for "old timey" photos. Of course, printing on the spot would ruin the "mystique" but a little lightroom tweak could make it fairly convincing, even adding some dust and scratches.

Of course, I don't have your woodworking skills (or toys), and will never get around to it anyway.

Tim Stapp Loc: Mid Mitten

We should talk about that. I am thinking of making a field camera, something smaller than my monorail.

Weddingguy Loc: British Columbia - Canada

.
In my sheet film days . . . both 8x10 and 4x5, I had the film holders numbered. How effective this is, is determined by the number of holders you are using in a batch. What would be easier today would be to carry an inexpensive point and shoot and shoot one shot of each subject as a means of identifying each subject or situation.

Tim Stapp Loc: Mid Mitten

Ok, in thinking through the responses I believe that I will utilize my DSLR with a white board and an order form to record individual shots.

Now, how to control exposed negatives removed from film holders and stored until able to be processed. I'm considering transferring exposed negatives from holders to an empty film bag/box in a changing tent and reloading my film holders. Unless I'm able to procure another 20 or so and just shoot away.

I may also look for a roll film holder. 10 shots to a roll of film, change the roll and carry on. Lots to think about.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

If you can find the roll film holder, it would be a little easier to keep everything in order.

Maybe you should train Wendy to do the reloading film holders. She can be your "lovely assistant" (you can tell her I said that)

bk

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Hi Tim!

I have a number of good solutions to your sheet film numbering task. I would have posted earlier but I had to do a bit of online research to track down the possibility of finding out if there is a possibility of your obtaining a device that I had many years ago- it has been out of production for many years but a few of them are showing up on E-bay and Craig's List for under 50 bucks. The device is the Stern Daylight Numbering Machine (see pictures below). After exposure the film holder is placed atop the device. The dark slide is withdrawn just about 1/2 of an inch. The top of the device is light trapped do you won't fog the film. An invoice or client number is placed under a spring loaded clip at the bottom of the device. A small lamp and lens will project the number onto the film. The procedure takes only a few seconds after each shot.

I used this device years ago before the wide use of 70mm long roll cameras with built in numbering features for high quantity portraiture like school portraits and grad photos. Back in the day, all of this work was done on 4x5 film to facilitate negative retouching and high quality enlargements.

If you can pick up one of theses old relics it will surely solve you identification issue. I wish I still had mine, I would have sent it to you!

If you can't find one, here are some other tricks:

If you can obtain some LISCO MARK II film holders, they have two little numbering wheels on the bottom flap of the holder, Theses are made of transparent acetate and allow you to form any 3 digit number using both of the wheels. The light form your exposure will illuminate the number and it will appear on the negative. You would need to write in the corresponding number, upon loading the film, on the little white slate on the top face of each side of the holder.

Another method, with any make of film holder, is to simply tape a small piece of transparent acetate to the bottom flap of the holder and using a permanent dark black medium fine marker, inscribe a number on the acetate. Write the corresponding number on the white slates before loading the film. The number will appear on the negative.

Here's yet another way- sounds silly but it works! In the darkroom when you are loading the film, using a #2HB ordinary pencil inscribe a number near the code notch of the film. Believe it or not, the pencil mark will survive the entire process and washing of the film and the number will remain on the negative. Of course, the corresponding number must be inscribed on the little white slate area on each side of the film holder. Years ago, I used to shoot all my passport and ID photos on 4x5 film as well. I used to take the holder into the darkroom and write in the client's invoice number and even the quantity of ID photos that were required. Never made a mistake! Some folks, who were applying for jobs, would order dozens of resume and application photos- this crude system worked out nicely.

Back to that machine! It is called the Stern Daylight Film Numbering Machine Model B. Google it! I think there are a few available online. I was surprised that they still existed. I don't recall whatever happened to mine. I double checked my "junk" department, but alas- gone! So I took to Google and found those pictures.

Let me know if you have any luck! I am probably the only one around here that is old enough to remember all of this old sheet film stuff. You can, of course go to a roll film back but you will have to find the appropriate lens focal length for you view or press camera (form 80mm to 105mm or thereabout) for a comfortable working distance. For machinery, the 4x5 format will give you excellent detail and sharpness. If all else fails, you can include one of those small marker/erasable slates in the corner of your composition where it can be cropped out of the final prints. In a 4x5 negate, even of you shoot slightly looser to accommodate the slate, you will still have a sizable image for great analog enlargements or digital scanning.

With kindest regards, Ed

PS- I will attempt to edit in those images, if they won't take- please see the next post.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

Now that's a slick answer.

Tim Stapp Loc: Mid Mitten

Thanks Ed, I sincerely appreciate your experience and sharing. Great input. I will look for one of the "machines."

I have one old wooden holder with what appears to be an acetate flag with numbers on it, but it does project slightly into the image. Your suggestion with the pencil makes a ton of sense. Tells me how those photographers 100 years ago put the information on the negatives that made the prints that I see in our local watering hole. The photos are of the same building.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

About those old photographs- sometimes the makers would mark the negatives with black India ink after the film was processed- the text would appear on the pent in white. In other cases the text was typed and copied on lithographic film the an overlay was made and sandwiched with the negative or layered on the paper during contact printing or enlarging.

There was also a series of Kodak folding camera, now collectible antiques, called the Autographic. The backing paper of the roll film was coated with what was similar to carbon paper. A flap on the camera's back allowed the photographer to write on the film (via the carbon coating) with a stylus supplied with the camera.

Nothing new under the sun. So here we are a hundred years later, in the digital age, still trying to mark film with a pencil. Whatever works!

Kindest regards, Ed

Tim Stapp Loc: Mid Mitten

I'm only trying to catch up on the last 50 or so. Not telling anyone my age, but my younger wife is having her 40th. class reunion this year. BK, I will deny having ever saying that 😀