fthomas Loc: Philippines

Wow, last night I was shooting night shots of the Balboa Pier and beach area in Newport Beach, Ca to include general street scenes. There is a bar there that I will not name, but I was about 30 to 40 feet west of their entrance photographing the general street scene and this guy about five times my size comes up to me and in a very threatening manner informed me that I had better not take any pictures of their "Bouncers". It was my desire to deescelate the situation and I soothed his temper and quickly moved a block away to my vehicle while calling their Police Department to notify them of the threat and making sure that there was a record of the situation.

I was on a Public Sidewalk in a Public Place and in that situation anyone and everyone is potentially a photograph as long as I am not violating their "Expectations of Privacy", which would mean photographing them in their home from the street or in a dressing room, etc. Under the conditions I was shooting there was no "Expectation of Privacy" as defined by US and California laws and case law nor was I violating any City Codes or Ordances since my photographs were of an artistic nature and not being shot for commercial purposes or under contract of a client.

It is always best to stay level headed and ensure your personal safety and that of your equipment and get out of the situation as soon and as quiclkly as possible before some idiot decides to get physical. In today's world that could mean anything from a gun to a knife to a physical beating.

Know your legal rights, but don't be foolish enough to try and enforce them when confronted by an aggressive person. It is best to let the Police Department handle the situation after the fact and from the safety of your easy chair, which is exactly what I did today.

I called their police deparment and asked to speak to the "Watch Commander": "Leutenant, I am very cynical about why someone would try and extend their legal rights within their establishment onto a public sidewalk where there were 10's if not close to 100 people taking pictures with small digital cameras, cell phones and DSLR's and this guy would choose me to let me know that they didn't want the faces of their Bouncers public. He asked what I meant and I told him that if they are concerned with having their identities publicly known when walking around on a public sidewalk what is it that they are hiding? Are they selling drugs, allowing minors into their bar or what other criminal activity might they be up to. He ended the conversation by asking for my phone number and told me to expect a call from their Vice Squad on Monday.

I'm uploading an excerpt from a book on Photographers Legal Rights in PDF. Hope this works.

Attached file:
(Download)

photo guy Loc: Chippewa Falls, WI

Sorry to hear of that. Not good. Glad no one got out of hand.

fthomas Loc: Philippines

No, I agree. Not good. And in an area such as the Balboa Pier there are untold numbers of tourist on vacation from outside of the local area and in my humble opinion overly aggressive bouncers enforcing their wishes on the general public on a public sidewalk represent a real liability for violence. If he had confronted a young former Marine professional photographer I know here who had three tours in Afghanistan i don't think things would have gone as smoothly for the Bouncer.

I'm a much older guy and having lived a considerable number of years in Hong Kong travelling Asia and photographing I am much more laid back. I've been places where civil wars were raging and the wrong answer to the wrong person could spell disaster for you. At best you could be arrested. At worst, well let's just say you might disappear.

I am a strong proponent of knowing my legal rights as a photographer and ensuring that they are respected without causing any harm or problems along the way. The way I handle something might mean that the next photographer that is confronted might be treated more aggresively otherwise and have his / her legal rights trampled on.

jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ

Blackies???

photo guy Loc: Chippewa Falls, WI

I know a marine who just got out after his time was up to the service. He hasn't been the same since. Now he is an alcoholic worse than before and fights even more now. He's even been in some fights due to someone saying the wrong thing to him or about the service. I know what you mean. Glad it worked out good this time.

Gidgette Loc: Boerne,Texas

If he was going to have his Vice Squad call on Monday, does that mean he was telling you they were under cover police? Or did he throw that in to make it look like they were under cover police? If they aren't, they could be turned in for falsely representing police. You should have told the police that they used Vice Squad. Everything I've ever heardis, they don't mention being under cover.

fthomas Loc: Philippines

No, the "Bouncer" didn't mention the police, vice squad or indicate that they were under cover anything. That is an interesting angle though. Given the type of place it is, the type of crowd it attracks they could have been "Under Cover" Police Officers. The Lt. said he would have their "Vice Squad" call me.

fthomas Loc: Philippines

I'm a disabled vet (Army helicopter pilot) and I see a lot of young men and women at the VA Hospital having trouble re-entering society after exceptional and distinguished service. Many I have met have had a "Traumatic Closed Head Brain Injury" from an explosive device such as the IED's the enemy sets as traps for our troops.

Please encourage your friend to seek help at the VA! They have exceptional programs for these men and women returning from war and being discharged from active duty

With a little encouragement from you his life might be changed for the better before he hurts himself or someone else. If you know other veterans who have been recently discharged and they know this young man, enlist their help in reaching out to him.

Our young men and women are being sent into war and little is reported on it to us so we do not have any idea what they are going through. A lot of compassion and respect can help this young man get back on the right road.

nikonesian Loc: Midwest USA

It is always best to stay level headed and ensure your personal safety and that of your equipment and get out of the situation as soon and as quiclkly as possible before some idiot decides to get physical. In today's world that could mean anything from a gun to a knife to a physical beating.

That's why my assistant is always armed. He starts waving the .45 around, babbling in Slovenian and that usually calms the situation down quick. All of the sudden bouncers want to pose in human pyramid fashion.

I'll be surprised if you get a call back and, if you do that there will be any action. The police probably depend on these guys to provide tips on illegal activity. Hope you get a satisfactory resolution.

Bill Emmett Loc: Bow, New Hampshire

Living near New Orleans, and using the streets of the French Quarter for some photo sites, I learned early on that this dangerous city could blow up in my face. I am always ready to run. I also have a Concealed Weapon Permit from the State of Louisiana, which allows me to carry a gun in public. Its one thing to be threated by someone, but to have a gun put into your face for your camera is another. So, when shooting on city streets in New Orleans, I carry my Canon 50D, and my Walther PPK, .380 with open optic sights, fully loaded magizine. I can shoot Canon or Cannon.

fthomas Loc: Philippines

I do take precautions though I don't carry a firearm of any type. Send me the number for your Slovenian assistant. I could learn a few things from him/her about warding off bouncers and other createns as well as photography. Things can quickly get out of hand and one should always be very aware of your surroundings even though we are paying more attention to our photography.

I doubt that I get a phone call back from the Newport Beach PD. Actually, given some thought they might be off duty officers working there. That still does not give them the right to insist that one give up their rights to photograph in public place. I'm not going to lose my life over it though. I can always shoot another day!

Regardless, it is always better to be safe! I think if I was a woman and a photographer that I would really feel vulnerable. I think the ladies have to have more courage than I do!

nikonesian Loc: Midwest USA

Interesting thought about off duty cops. I wonder if their PD has a restriction on off duty security jobs? I would have probably stopped photographing and called 911 while he was standing there saying " you're right, the police should be involved". Nobody should be threatened or confronted in a public setting if they're not doing anything wrong.

Shutterbugsailer Loc: Staten Island NY (AKA Cincinnati by the Sea)

Another argument for buying a bridge camera over a DSLR. You can get your shot from a greater distance and with a less conspicuous device than with a DSLR. Even if the bouncer still gets in a "Roid" rage and trashes your equipment, better to lose a $400.00 bridge camera than a $4000.00 DSLR

Mytherwyn Loc: United States

Let me tell you what I think happened...The Lt. thinks that you are just an idiot for calling in such nonsense and while he was rolling his eyes at you for wasting his time he told you what you wanted to hear and I bet he never intended to pass your message on to the "Vice Squad". And I also bet you will never hear from any one.
Also the chances of that bouncer being a cop are really good and he knew it.

I agree with Nikonesian....you should have called 911 and let them respond.

I was photographing a crash not two days ago and since I am a Detective and wear plain clothes with my badge and gun hidden no one knew that. A State Trooper told me to stop photographing and I ask why....he said I was not allowed to take pictures because it was a crime scene. Well...I showed him my badge and he left me alone...Idiot.

viscountdriver Loc: East Kent UK

Cor! If you waved a gun around in the UK thirty armed cops would arrive and you would spend the next few months explaining why.