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Mar 31, 2017 04:41:08   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
The Opinion Pages | OP-ED COLUMNIST. The New York Times

Coal Country Is a State of Mind

Paul Krugman MARCH 31, 2017


West Virginia went overwhelmingly for Donald Trump in November — in fact, he beat Hillary Clinton by almost a three-to-one majority. And it may seem obvious why: The state is the heart of coal country, and Mr. Trump promised to bring coal jobs back by eliminating Obama-era environmental regulations. So at first glance the 2016 e******n looks like a political realignment reflecting differences in regional interests.

But that simple story breaks down when you look at the realities of the situation — and not just because environmentalism is a minor factor in coal’s decline. For coal country isn’t really coal country anymore, and hasn’t been for a long time.

Why does an industry that is no longer a major employer even in West Virginia retain such a hold on the region’s imagination, and lead its residents to v**e overwhelmingly against their own interests?

Coal powered the Industrial Revolution, and once upon a time it did indeed employ a lot of people. But the number of miners began a steep decline after World War II, and especially after 1980, even though coal production continued to rise. This was mainly because modern extraction techniques — like blowing the tops off mountains — require far less labor than old-fashioned pick-and-shovel mining. The decline accelerated about a decade ago as the rise of fracking led to competition from cheap natural gas.

So coal-mining jobs have been disappearing for a long time. Even in West Virginia, the most coal-oriented state, it has been a quarter century since they accounted for as much as 5 percent of total employment.

What, then, do West Virginians actually do for a living these days? Well, many of them work in health care: Almost one in six workers is employed in the category “health care and social assistance.”

Oh, and where does the money for those health care jobs come from? Actually, a lot of it comes from Washington.

West Virginia has a relatively old population, so 22 percent of its residents are on Medicare, versus 16.7 percent for the nation as a whole. It’s also a state that has benefited hugely from Obamacare, with the percentage of the population lacking health insurance falling from 14 percent in 2013 to 6 percent in 2015; these gains came mainly from a big expansion of Medicaid.

It’s true that the nation as a whole pays for these health care programs with taxes. But an older, poorer state like West Virginia receives much more than it pays in — and it would have received virtually none of the tax cuts Trumpcare would have lavished on the wealthy.

Now think about what Trumpism means for a state like this. K*****g environmental rules might bring back a few mining jobs, but not many, and mining isn’t really central to the economy in any case. Meanwhile, the Trump administration and its allies just tried to replace the Affordable Care Act. If they had succeeded, the effect would have been catastrophic for West Virginia, slashing Medicaid and sending insurance premiums for lower-income, older residents soaring.

Also, don’t forget that Paul Ryan has long pushed for the conversion of Medicare into an underfunded voucher scheme, which would be another body blow to retiree-heavy states.

And aside from the devastating effect on coverage, think about how the Republican assault on Obamacare would have affected the health sector that now employs so many West Virginians. It’s almost certain that the job losses from Trumpcare cuts would have greatly exceeded any possible gains in coal.

So West Virginia v**ed overwhelmingly against its own interests. And it wasn’t just because its citizens failed to understand the numbers, the reality of the trade-off between coal and health care jobs.

For the striking thing, as I said, is that coal isn’t even the state’s dominant industry these days. “Coal country” residents weren’t v****g to preserve what they have, or had until recently; they were v****g on behalf of a story their region tells about itself, a story that hasn’t been true for a generation or more.

Their Trump v**es weren’t even about the region’s interests; they were about cultural symbolism.

Now, regional cultures that invoke a long-gone past are hardly unique to Appalachia; think of Texans wearing 10-gallon hats and cowboy boots as they stroll through air-conditioned malls. And there’s nothing wrong with that!

But when it comes to energy and environmental policy, we’re not talking about mere cultural affectations. Going backward on the environment will sicken and k**l thousands in the near future; over the longer term, failing to act on c*****e c****e could, all too plausibly, lead to civilizational collapse.

So it’s incredible, and terrifying, to think that we may really be about to do all of that because Donald Trump successfully pandered to cultural nostalgia, to a longing for a vanished past when men were men and miners dug deep.

Reply
Mar 31, 2017 05:48:23   #
bull drink water Loc: pontiac mi.
 
don't you remember how trump said he loved the uneducated masses?????

Reply
Mar 31, 2017 06:09:13   #
Steven Seward Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
 
I think Paul Krugman is full of sour grapes because Hillary lost, and he is looking for excuses, like the uneducated being too dumb to pick the right candidate. Apparently Bull Drink Water agrees with that assessment. Coal was not the only issue on the b****t.

Reply
 
 
Mar 31, 2017 07:53:18   #
Leica User Loc: Western North Carolina
 
Twardlow wrote:
The Opinion Pages | OP-ED COLUMNIST. The New York Times

Coal Country Is a State of Mind

Paul Krugman MARCH 31, 2017


West Virginia went overwhelmingly for Donald Trump in November — in fact, he beat Hillary Clinton by almost a three-to-one majority. And it may seem obvious why: The state is the heart of coal country, and Mr. Trump promised to bring coal jobs back by eliminating Obama-era environmental regulations. So at first glance the 2016 e******n looks like a political realignment reflecting differences in regional interests.

But that simple story breaks down when you look at the realities of the situation — and not just because environmentalism is a minor factor in coal’s decline. For coal country isn’t really coal country anymore, and hasn’t been for a long time.

Why does an industry that is no longer a major employer even in West Virginia retain such a hold on the region’s imagination, and lead its residents to v**e overwhelmingly against their own interests?

Coal powered the Industrial Revolution, and once upon a time it did indeed employ a lot of people. But the number of miners began a steep decline after World War II, and especially after 1980, even though coal production continued to rise. This was mainly because modern extraction techniques — like blowing the tops off mountains — require far less labor than old-fashioned pick-and-shovel mining. The decline accelerated about a decade ago as the rise of fracking led to competition from cheap natural gas.

So coal-mining jobs have been disappearing for a long time. Even in West Virginia, the most coal-oriented state, it has been a quarter century since they accounted for as much as 5 percent of total employment.

What, then, do West Virginians actually do for a living these days? Well, many of them work in health care: Almost one in six workers is employed in the category “health care and social assistance.”

Oh, and where does the money for those health care jobs come from? Actually, a lot of it comes from Washington.

West Virginia has a relatively old population, so 22 percent of its residents are on Medicare, versus 16.7 percent for the nation as a whole. It’s also a state that has benefited hugely from Obamacare, with the percentage of the population lacking health insurance falling from 14 percent in 2013 to 6 percent in 2015; these gains came mainly from a big expansion of Medicaid.

It’s true that the nation as a whole pays for these health care programs with taxes. But an older, poorer state like West Virginia receives much more than it pays in — and it would have received virtually none of the tax cuts Trumpcare would have lavished on the wealthy.

Now think about what Trumpism means for a state like this. K*****g environmental rules might bring back a few mining jobs, but not many, and mining isn’t really central to the economy in any case. Meanwhile, the Trump administration and its allies just tried to replace the Affordable Care Act. If they had succeeded, the effect would have been catastrophic for West Virginia, slashing Medicaid and sending insurance premiums for lower-income, older residents soaring.

Also, don’t forget that Paul Ryan has long pushed for the conversion of Medicare into an underfunded voucher scheme, which would be another body blow to retiree-heavy states.

And aside from the devastating effect on coverage, think about how the Republican assault on Obamacare would have affected the health sector that now employs so many West Virginians. It’s almost certain that the job losses from Trumpcare cuts would have greatly exceeded any possible gains in coal.

So West Virginia v**ed overwhelmingly against its own interests. And it wasn’t just because its citizens failed to understand the numbers, the reality of the trade-off between coal and health care jobs.

For the striking thing, as I said, is that coal isn’t even the state’s dominant industry these days. “Coal country” residents weren’t v****g to preserve what they have, or had until recently; they were v****g on behalf of a story their region tells about itself, a story that hasn’t been true for a generation or more.

Their Trump v**es weren’t even about the region’s interests; they were about cultural symbolism.

Now, regional cultures that invoke a long-gone past are hardly unique to Appalachia; think of Texans wearing 10-gallon hats and cowboy boots as they stroll through air-conditioned malls. And there’s nothing wrong with that!

But when it comes to energy and environmental policy, we’re not talking about mere cultural affectations. Going backward on the environment will sicken and k**l thousands in the near future; over the longer term, failing to act on c*****e c****e could, all too plausibly, lead to civilizational collapse.

So it’s incredible, and terrifying, to think that we may really be about to do all of that because Donald Trump successfully pandered to cultural nostalgia, to a longing for a vanished past when men were men and miners dug deep.
The Opinion Pages | OP-ED COLUMNIST. The New York... (show quote)


I wonder if Krugman has ever even visited "coal country"? I wonder if he even knows what a lump or chunk of coal looks like? I would think the answer to both is "NO". And I am not talking about the story by Lemony Snicket/Daniel Handler.
Krugman pretty much states in this article that West Virginians are stupid. Far from it.
Here are some facts about the coal industry that Krugman should have become familiar with BEFORE he wrote this silly and mistake filled article. Once again, Krugman gets it wrong. Just more left wing tripe.

http://www.wvminesafety.org/wvcoalfacts.htm



Reply
Mar 31, 2017 08:51:39   #
Frosty Loc: Minnesota
 
Leica User wrote:
I wonder if Krugman has ever even visited "coal country"? I wonder if he even knows what a lump or chunk of coal looks like? I would think the answer to both is "NO". And I am not talking about the story by Lemony Snicket/Daniel Handler.
Krugman pretty much states in this article that West Virginians are stupid. Far from it.
Here are some facts about the coal industry that Krugman should have become familiar with BEFORE he wrote this silly and mistake filled article. Once again, Krugman gets it wrong. Just more left wing tripe.

http://www.wvminesafety.org/wvcoalfacts.htm
I wonder if Krugman has ever even visited "co... (show quote)

**********
What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source?

In 2015, the United States generated about 4 trillion kilowatthours of electricity.1  About 67% of the electricity generated was from f****l f**ls (coal, natural gas, and petroleum).

Major energy sources and percent share of total U.S. electricity generation in 2015:1 

Coal = 33%
Natural gas = 33%
Nuclear = 20%
Hydropower = 6%
Other renewables = 7%
Biomass = 1.6%
Geothermal = 0.4%
Solar = 0.6%
Wind = 4.7%
Petroleum = 1%
Other gases = <1%

1 Preliminary data; based on generation by utility-scale facilities.

Learn more:
Energy Explained: Electricity in the United States
Electric Power Monthly: Chapter 1: Net Generation
Monthly Energy Review
*******
It seems that coal only produces only aboutt 33 percent of the nations electricity, not as stated in this article that it produces over 50 percent. Forevermore. A lot of the electricity is produced by cleaner western coal, not dirty eastern coal. ,.

Reply
Mar 31, 2017 09:36:57   #
Checkmate Loc: Southern California
 
Twardlow wrote:
The Opinion Pages | OP-ED COLUMNIST. The New York Times

Coal Country Is a State of Mind

Paul Krugman MARCH 31, 2017


West Virginia went overwhelmingly for Donald Trump in November — in fact, he beat Hillary Clinton by almost a three-to-one majority. And it may seem obvious why: The state is the heart of coal country, and Mr. Trump promised to bring coal jobs back by eliminating Obama-era environmental regulations. So at first glance the 2016 e******n looks like a political realignment reflecting differences in regional interests.

But that simple story breaks down when you look at the realities of the situation — and not just because environmentalism is a minor factor in coal’s decline. For coal country isn’t really coal country anymore, and hasn’t been for a long time.

Why does an industry that is no longer a major employer even in West Virginia retain such a hold on the region’s imagination, and lead its residents to v**e overwhelmingly against their own interests?

Coal powered the Industrial Revolution, and once upon a time it did indeed employ a lot of people. But the number of miners began a steep decline after World War II, and especially after 1980, even though coal production continued to rise. This was mainly because modern extraction techniques — like blowing the tops off mountains — require far less labor than old-fashioned pick-and-shovel mining. The decline accelerated about a decade ago as the rise of fracking led to competition from cheap natural gas.

So coal-mining jobs have been disappearing for a long time. Even in West Virginia, the most coal-oriented state, it has been a quarter century since they accounted for as much as 5 percent of total employment.

What, then, do West Virginians actually do for a living these days? Well, many of them work in health care: Almost one in six workers is employed in the category “health care and social assistance.”

Oh, and where does the money for those health care jobs come from? Actually, a lot of it comes from Washington.

West Virginia has a relatively old population, so 22 percent of its residents are on Medicare, versus 16.7 percent for the nation as a whole. It’s also a state that has benefited hugely from Obamacare, with the percentage of the population lacking health insurance falling from 14 percent in 2013 to 6 percent in 2015; these gains came mainly from a big expansion of Medicaid.

It’s true that the nation as a whole pays for these health care programs with taxes. But an older, poorer state like West Virginia receives much more than it pays in — and it would have received virtually none of the tax cuts Trumpcare would have lavished on the wealthy.

Now think about what Trumpism means for a state like this. K*****g environmental rules might bring back a few mining jobs, but not many, and mining isn’t really central to the economy in any case. Meanwhile, the Trump administration and its allies just tried to replace the Affordable Care Act. If they had succeeded, the effect would have been catastrophic for West Virginia, slashing Medicaid and sending insurance premiums for lower-income, older residents soaring.

Also, don’t forget that Paul Ryan has long pushed for the conversion of Medicare into an underfunded voucher scheme, which would be another body blow to retiree-heavy states.

And aside from the devastating effect on coverage, think about how the Republican assault on Obamacare would have affected the health sector that now employs so many West Virginians. It’s almost certain that the job losses from Trumpcare cuts would have greatly exceeded any possible gains in coal.

So West Virginia v**ed overwhelmingly against its own interests. And it wasn’t just because its citizens failed to understand the numbers, the reality of the trade-off between coal and health care jobs.

For the striking thing, as I said, is that coal isn’t even the state’s dominant industry these days. “Coal country” residents weren’t v****g to preserve what they have, or had until recently; they were v****g on behalf of a story their region tells about itself, a story that hasn’t been true for a generation or more.

Their Trump v**es weren’t even about the region’s interests; they were about cultural symbolism.

Now, regional cultures that invoke a long-gone past are hardly unique to Appalachia; think of Texans wearing 10-gallon hats and cowboy boots as they stroll through air-conditioned malls. And there’s nothing wrong with that!

But when it comes to energy and environmental policy, we’re not talking about mere cultural affectations. Going backward on the environment will sicken and k**l thousands in the near future; over the longer term, failing to act on c*****e c****e could, all too plausibly, lead to civilizational collapse.

So it’s incredible, and terrifying, to think that we may really be about to do all of that because Donald Trump successfully pandered to cultural nostalgia, to a longing for a vanished past when men were men and miners dug deep.
The Opinion Pages | OP-ED COLUMNIST. The New York... (show quote)


You POS idol Obama threw all those people under the bus by his backhanded use of the EPA. Instead of working to teach these people new trades first Obama just eliminated
their jobs and never looked back. Remember that ANYBODY that has to invoke the NYT and Paul Krugman should have their head examined after they pull it out of their ass.

Reply
Mar 31, 2017 10:17:55   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
Steven Seward wrote:
I think Paul Krugman is full of sour grapes because Hillary lost, and he is looking for excuses, like the uneducated being too dumb to pick the right candidate. Apparently Bull Drink Water agrees with that assessment. Coal was not the only issue on the b****t.


So you dispute his numbers? You dispute that natural gas is cheaper than coal? You dispute graphs demonstrating persistent and perpetual decline in use of coal over, say, the last 100 years? You dispute the number of miners in West Virginia, compared to the total population, or compared to health and service workers?

In West Virginia Coal WAS nearly the only issue on the b****t, if you remember--that's precisely the story Paul addresses.

On the other hand, Hillary seems to totally own you: the e******n was nearly five months ago, Hillary lost, and you can't forget her. You ascribe every bad thing that happens to Hillary, who Wasn't elected five months ago. She, of course, IS the reason Obamacare wasn't repealed, and she insisted on General Flynn being part of the Trump administration. She also insisted upon 100% communications and submission to the Russians, and also insisted that nepotism and corruption be a major part of the administration, and that the primary activity of the President be playing golf--paying himself to play at his own golf club at public espense and also paying a million dollars a day to keep his wife in NYC.

Those damn liberals--Hillary expecially!--they ruin everything.

BTW we seem to have missed the new battle plan against ISIS, which was guaranteed 30 days after inauguration.

Reply
 
 
Mar 31, 2017 10:18:38   #
Frosty Loc: Minnesota
 
Checkmate wrote:
You POS idol Obama threw all those people under the bus by his backhanded use of the EPA. Instead of working to teach these people new trades first Obama just eliminated
their jobs and never looked back. Remember that ANYBODY that has to invoke the NYT and Paul Krugman should have their head examined after they pull it out of their ass.

*****
Of course, Paul Krugman, the Nobel Prize laureate in economics doesn't know as much about economics as you do. Say again what university you recieved your education in economics.

Reply
Mar 31, 2017 10:20:40   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
Frosty wrote:
**********
What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source?

In 2015, the United States generated about 4 trillion kilowatthours of electricity.1  About 67% of the electricity generated was from f****l f**ls (coal, natural gas, and petroleum).

Major energy sources and percent share of total U.S. electricity generation in 2015:1 

Coal = 33%
Natural gas = 33%
Nuclear = 20%
Hydropower = 6%
Other renewables = 7%
Biomass = 1.6%
Geothermal = 0.4%
Solar = 0.6%
Wind = 4.7%
Petroleum = 1%
Other gases = <1%

1 Preliminary data; based on generation by utility-scale facilities.

Learn more:
Energy Explained: Electricity in the United States
Electric Power Monthly: Chapter 1: Net Generation
Monthly Energy Review
*******
It seems that coal only produces only aboutt 33 percent of the nations electricity, not as stated in this article that it produces over 50 percent. Forevermore. A lot of the electricity is produced by cleaner western coal, not dirty eastern coal. ,.
********** br What is U.S. electricity generation ... (show quote)


And the move is persistently toward non-coal generation, and coal will never reign again. Live with it.

Reply
Mar 31, 2017 10:25:43   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
Checkmate wrote:
You POS idol Obama threw all those people under the bus by his backhanded use of the EPA. Instead of working to teach these people new trades first Obama just eliminated
their jobs and never looked back. Remember that ANYBODY that has to invoke the NYT and Paul Krugman should have their head examined after they pull it out of their ass.


You are ignorand and misinformed, and irrational and your opinion is irresponsible and worthless.

Natural Gas k**led coal, and automation destroyed the industry of pick-and-shovel coal mining.

Hillary--who was NOT elected November 8, if you remember--had an extensive plan for re-education; Trump offered slogans and misinformation, and and executive order that benefitted coal magnates, but NOTHING for out of work miners, except empty promises that coal was coming back--"Clean Coal," which is a dishonest farce.

Reply
Mar 31, 2017 10:30:37   #
Checkmate Loc: Southern California
 
Frosty wrote:
*****
Of course, Paul Krugman, the Nobel Prize laureate in economics doesn't know as much about economics as you do. Say again what university you recieved your education in economics.


Aren't they the same group that gave Obama the Nobel Prize when he hadn't done jack s**t and never did. I got my education from the school of hard knocks and hard work.

Reply
 
 
Mar 31, 2017 10:34:21   #
Checkmate Loc: Southern California
 
Twardlow wrote:
You are ignorand and misinformed, and irrational and your opinion is irresponsible and worthless.

Natural Gas k**led coal, and automation destroyed the industry of pick-and-shovel coal mining.

Hillary--who was NOT elected November 8, if you remember--had an extensive plan for re-education; Trump offered slogans and misinformation, and and executive order that benefitted coal magnates, but NOTHING for out of work miners, except empty promises that coal was coming back--"Clean Coal," which is a dishonest farce.
You are ignorand and misinformed, and irrational a... (show quote)


I am not a supporter for coal but Obama proved his worthlessness by pulling the plug and screwing over those hard working people. Get your lips off of Obama's ass
and grow up.

Reply
Mar 31, 2017 10:46:58   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
Checkmate wrote:
Aren't they the same group that gave Obama the Nobel Prize when he hadn't done jack s**t and never did. I got my education from the school of hard knocks and hard work.


Too bad you never learned to pay attention.

Reply
Mar 31, 2017 10:49:45   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
Checkmate wrote:
I am not a supporter for coal but Obama proved his worthlessness by pulling the plug and screwing over those hard working people. Get your lips off of Obama's ass
and grow up.


Obama did NOT pull the plug and he did NOT screw those people. Coal magnates and black lung screwed those people.

Coal is dead, and it ain't coming back, and that has nothing to do with politics.

Trump misled those people, lied to them, for the v**es and in order to help coal magnates.

Reply
Mar 31, 2017 10:55:21   #
phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO
 
Twardlow wrote:
So you dispute his numbers? You dispute that natural gas is cheaper than coal? You dispute graphs demonstrating persistent and perpetual decline in use of coal over, say, the last 100 years? You dispute the number of miners in West Virginia, compared to the total population, or compared to health and service workers?

In West Virginia Coal WAS nearly the only issue on the b****t, if you remember--that's precisely the story Paul addresses.

On the other hand, Hillary seems to totally own you: the e******n was nearly five months ago, Hillary lost, and you can't forget her. You ascribe every bad thing that happens to Hillary, who Wasn't elected five months ago. She, of course, IS the reason Obamacare wasn't repealed, and she insisted on General Flynn being part of the Trump administration. She also insisted upon 100% communications and submission to the Russians, and also insisted that nepotism and corruption be a major part of the administration, and that the primary activity of the President be playing golf--paying himself to play at his own golf club at public espense and also paying a million dollars a day to keep his wife in NYC.

Those damn liberals--Hillary expecially!--they ruin everything.

The war on coal is over, except in the empty heads of liberal tree huggers, live with it.

BTW we seem to have missed the new battle plan against ISIS, which was guaranteed 30 days after inauguration.
So you dispute his numbers? You dispute that natu... (show quote)

Reply
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