wthomson Loc: Tempe, Arizona

I have been thinking about noise reduction PP software and technique in terms of stops. That is, using my D750 and shooting in RAW, I generally have acceptable noise up to ISO 1600/3200, depending on the situation. What software/technique would allow me to use higher ISO and most critically, how many stops would I be able to recover?

I'm heading into a wildlife situation where the use of a tripod is impossible, where lighting conditions will at times be marginal, and I can't afford to buy (or carry) the really big glass (my largest lens will be a Nikon 80-400 4.5-5.6G ED VR). Some of the wildlife/birds will be fast moving, so I'm trying to decide the optimal parameter ranges of ISO, f, and shutter speed. I've done some experimentation with f and ss, but I don't really have a handle on what kind of compromises I might be able to make in increasing ISO and later correcting in PP.

Would current noise reduction software and technique potentially give me an additional 2-3 stops that I might be able to use to manipulate f and ss?

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Is it a situation where your will be doing single shots or bursts.
If single shots then a good flash with or without a better beamer does wonders. I have done it with birds, most don't seem to be bothered or even notice the flash but some, like hummers notice and may or may not react or spook.

Best done with the flash on manual because the ETTL can be fooled by reflections off leaves and things with birds.

wthomson Loc: Tempe, Arizona

I'll be doing both single shots and bursts, and I'm pretty sure that flash is not allowed.

RichardTaylor Loc: Sydney, Australia

From personal experience, using Canon and Olympus cameras, Topaz DeNoise gives me at least two stops. In some case you may only need to do a bit of selective noise reduction.

DaveO Loc: Northeast CT

Have you used the 80-400 in lower light situations yet? Mine tended to hunt for focus and I replaced it with the 200-500 and do much better on both full frame and cropped sensor cameras.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

You might want to consider renting a D3S or a D4 and possibly a 300 F2.8 and a 1.4X TC. Or a 200mm F2.0 and a 2X TC. Both combinations will give you better results than the 80-400. The D3s/D4 will give you good results to ISO 12,800 or higher.

https://photographylife.com/nikon-d4-vs-d3s-vs-d3-iso-performance-comparison

wthomson Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Yes, I've been pleasantly surprised with my copy's ability to focus in low light.

DaveO Loc: Northeast CT

Have a great time!

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

OK, I use the denoise in LR, PS and NIK but my favorite is Franzis "DENOISE Project Professional". http://www.projects-software.com/denoise I found one of those very low price offers through an on line photo magazine for the old version right after the new one came out. Then later I got a limited time upgrade offer at a huge discount along with a package of some of their other apps, the other ones were all ver 4 and ver 5 had just come out, but they were very steeply discounted. You can sign up for their newsletter and they will notify you when they have specials.

mcveed Loc: Kelowna, British Columbia (between trips)

I get the best results with DXO Prime.

Jules Karney Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada

I use Noiseware, it is free. I shoot a lot of basketball. With a d500 iso 2500 Noiseware cleans up the pics. really nice. This was at 500 at 2.8.
Hope this helps and gives you some idea.

(Download)

wthomson Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Thanks for all of the useful information, but I would still need to know how many stops I can anticipate gaining with current quality noise reduction software and technique.

jackpi Loc: Southwest Ohio

I agree DxO Prime Noise Reduction is fantastic.
Anyone interested can download a trial version and try it. You can also find demos on YouTube.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Sorry, but only you can answer that question. There are simply too many variables.

If you do a search for reviews of your particular camera you will likely find some comparison of noise levels at different ISOs. That might help a bit.

But ultimately it will depend upon...

1. How you'll be using your images... an image displayed online or printed relatively small might be able to get by with a lot more noise than some "higher" use demands.

2. What level of noise you personally find tolerable.... everyone forms their own opinions about noise, how much is too much, etc.

3. Conditions at the moment of exposure and the subject being photographed.... for example noise is much more tolerable or "hidden" when photographing a furry or feathered subject, than it is with something that's a smooth tonality. Noise also shows up more in shadows than in lighter toned areas.

4. How careful you are about exposure accuracy, especially avoiding under-exposure, which when corrected in post-processing very likely will increase the appearance of noise.

Things you can do...

Shoot RAW to be sure you have as much original image data as possible to work with in post-processing.

Minimize cropping of your images. In other words, do your best to "fill the viewfinder" with your subject. Any cropping will increase the appearance of any noise that might be present.

Shoot a series of test shots with your camera, at all the ISOs it can do or at those you think you might want to use... then closely compare them yourself. Ultimately only you can decide what's usable and what's not... so this is important.

Be sure your software is as up-to-date as possible. A lot of the more recent improvements in noise handling seem to be coming from software, rather than from hardware development.

Use some form of noise reduction. Like some others, I often use Noiseware ($80 as a Photoshop plug-in, but I think also available as a stand alone). Depending upon the particular images, I also sometimes use other noise reduction software. For example, a camera manufacturer's own RAW conversion software might be particularly well-tuned to correcting the noise produced by their particular cameras. For example, I shoot with Canon and used to use their software for my highest ISO images, before the noise reduction was improved in more recent versions of Lightroom and Photoshop, and before I had Noiseware installed and learned to use it. I now rarely use Canon's own software because the others have improved to match or beat it. I've also installed Nik DFine (freebie, another Photoshop Plug-IN) but haven't used it much... doesn't seem nearly as advanced as Noiseware.

Be careful about your workflow. I always do noise reduction before any sharpening, for example. When an image is sharpened, it will make any noise that's present become more apparent. So I do my best to get rid of noise first. Depending upon what you're doing with the image, it also is usually best to do noise reduction before down-sizing an image for printing or other purposes. Probably would be best to do it before scaling an image up in size, too... if ever doing that.

Sometimes an image can be "saved" by converting it to black & white or sepia toned, where any noise looks more like film grain and is far less objectionable.

Go ahead and shoot! Take the shot, regardless. This applies to anytime you're shooting near the margins of what's possible. Maybe only one or a few images will be usable, while others are trash. But isn't it better to have one or two than none at all?

When you have time, take additional shots at different settings... higher ISO with faster shutter speed, lower ISO with slower. Some people just keep firing away without varying their settings at all. If one image isn't usable, then all of them aren't going to be usable. Or, they end up with a whole bunch of duplicates. They might surprise themselves if they'd just "try other things"... various shutter speeds, apertures and ISOs (among other things).

Sometimes you can get by with slower-than-you-think shutter speeds, too... even when hand-holding. Use something to steady your shot, such as leaning against a tree or rock or whatever. Set your camera to high continuous rate and take a burst of shots, increasing the odds of at least one shot coming out well even at "too slow" shutter speeds. I don't know the specifics of yours, but most cameras now have some form of bracketing that might be useful for this purpose.

Hope this helps!

wthomson Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Thanks again for all of the detailed information in the above responses. Perhaps I didn't make clear that have been taking and processing photographs for well over half a century. I am pretty well familiar with technique and the various tradeoffs involved. What I have not yet have a chance to explore is de-noising software.

I apologize if my original question was unclear, so let me re-phrase it. All other things being equal, if I am satisfied with the level of noise in a 20x30 landscape print taken at ISO 800, will current de-noise software/technique enable me to be similarly satisfied with an analogous print taken after the loss of two stops of light taken at ISO 3200? What about after the loss of three stops of light taken at ISO 6400? More?

I'm aware of photographic tradeoffs. What I'm trying to get a ball-park understanding of how many stops current de-noising software and technique will potentially provide. Ball-park answers are all I need, and I promise not to complain if I utilize your answer and end up an unhappy camper (:-).