winterrose Loc: Kyneton, Victoria, Australia

A measure of how convivial a group or section actually is can be gauged by how seriously or otherwise they take themselves, and that in turn can be gauged by their ability to engage in a sense of humor.

On that basis alone the “For Your Consideration” Section is in trouble.

Even with the hindsight of having witnessed the now defunct Photo Critique Section implode from lack of direction, destructively poor management and overzealous enforcement of a requirement to be nice, the FYC is now well on the road to making the same mistakes.

An almost hysterical requirement for all to show respect, by the woman running the section and enforced by the moderator, may to them be the way to achieve an air of good will but in practice only serves to falsify and restrict meaningful intercourse.

When considering their opinions, participants are so fearful of falling out of favor or of retribution from the hierarchy that they tippy-toe around even the most glaring of faults in the images that they examine.

I have for some time held concerns that the FYC will fail.

At present it is faltering, but left unchecked, as did the Critique section, fail it will.

It’s only a matter of when.

Whuff Loc: Marshalltown, Iowa

What a load of BS.

Mike D. Loc: Crowley County, CO.

Obviously I can't speak for the group but maybe, just maybe, it fell apart because of an inordinate amount of trolls who think it's their God-given right to tear people down for their efforts. There is a huge difference between constructive criticism and blatant hostility whose only purpose seems to make people feel bad about what they post.

There are many sk**l levels here and over the years I have watched people come and people go because they got tired of being berated for having a life outside of this forum. While I understand your concerns, consider also the fact that some people aren't looking for kudos for crappy work, they might simply want to share a moment or two of their day.

I post things to share those moments and if folks here don't like it, they are completely free to not say a bloody thing and that is fine with me. More power to those that can spend hours to set up those great shots and then more hours to over process them, but my world involves a 48 hour work week and this is only day 4, I have 11 kids to feed and referee when I'm home, my wife and I also have a home-based business so some days it's a complete wonder that I can summon up the what-for to pay attention.

Don't get me wrong, I love to watch the amazing talent that resides here and on occasion I allow myself a few moments of envy for those that do the awesome stuff, often without any recognition whatsoever but I really do resent those who flood the place with overwhelming negativity and for what purpose, to make themselves feel important or superior?

I work in a prison, I get PLENTY of that...

luvmypets Loc: Born & raised Texan living in Fayetteville NC

Since you feel that the FYC and Photo Critique section are so badly managed, why don't you work with Admin to create a new section moderated by you with the guide lines you feel need to be in place for a successful section. If you are correct that both FYC and Photo Critique are a failure than surely you can show everyone on this forum how it should be done.

ptcanon3ti Loc: NJ

Good.

Uhh is THE most UNDER moderated forum to which i belong. There is a way to discuss and offer critique and multiple ways to NOT do these things. Yes it requires more thinking and effort to offer non insulting but honest review and critique. But that is the way it is in the world of PROPER art review.

Mandated decorum and simple manners are needed here on UHH and in the world of the internet and trolls.

BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA

IGNORED!

mcveed Loc: Kelowna, British Columbia (between trips)

Well now, you've told us all the things you think are wrong with FYC but you haven't clearly expressed your view on how we should go about fixing it. How about a couple of positive ideas on the solution to what you seem to think is a disaster. Or do you just want to be the voice of doom?

BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA

Several years ago, a local camera shop (now out of business) had a "Second Saturday" presentation of about 30 landscape photos. Many were BW (my patheric entry was a BW shot with my 4X5, enlarged roughly 3X and matted, as I remember, into a 16X20 frame). A local photographer presented an Ansel Adams print that AA gave to the photographers father many years ago. None of the entries were required to be our own work. Adams print was attributed on a small card printed in an 8-10 point elaborate font, so few people knew who the had created the image. This "highlight" of the show was not recognized as an AA work, but it was amusing to hear some of the comments about the print, "foreboding", "grossly underexposed" and yes, even "amateurish" and "ugly". V**es were cast for the best five pictures; I actually got one v**e for my print and AA got about six. The "winner" was a BW print taken by the owners father with a Kodak Autographic. So much for expertise in the judging of art!

BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA

I'm not saying that is the case here, but there is little that can be done about critique-based forums that degenerate into "Kowtow Karnivals". The only solution is for the photographers seeking critique to politely reject the "atta boys" and keep asking for honest analysis and commentary.

And, yes, there is little a moderator can do to prevent this almost inevitable outcome without drawing criticism from the artist and the critics. The moderators, by their very position, are set up to be the bad guys. Nobody likes rodeo judges.

Haydon

Please remove the kindergarten from this ONCE great forum. Moderate and eliminate those who offer nothing but malice please. I hope that is one of/if only "UHH's 2017 Resolutions!!!"

BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA

Hayden, I understand what you are asking, and, in an ideal world, it would be the best solution. But, if a moderator removes a post because it is malicious or overly gratuitous, the moderator will be accused of unfair subjective decisions and becomes the villain. It will take a very thick-skinned person to take on such a chore - and it will take equally thick-skinned presenters to accept the moderators judgment. Perhaps one solution might be for the moderator to suspend non-specific, malicious and/or gratuitous members for a short period of time (with an explanation of the suspension) and monitor those who have been reinstated to determine whether or not inappropriate behavior has been corrected. If so, all the better; if not, a longer suspension and/or subsequent banishment may be the only solution. Goodness knows, I wouldn't want the job.

winterrose Loc: Kyneton, Victoria, Australia

Do I need to remind that the FYC describes itself as a place; “with an emphasis on photography, we will explore art, with the idea to learn the techniques of those before us and become better at our craft”.

Lets not kid ourselves, the FYC has become little more than a sort of Facebook for a small group of snappers.

Billyspad Loc: The Philippines

Hya Walt
The OP I think went out of his way to express genuine concerns for a section which he has quite faithfully supported. Now we know W/R can be direct and sometimes appear blunt but he is also quite experienced and very knowledgeable about fototog. His forthright manner at times I put down to the fact he is an Aussie and they do not suffer fools gladly.
If your not sure of his ability the next time you have a photo to post send W/R a copy via PM and ask his help or opinion. Compare that with what you receive on the FYC forum for instance. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the time and effort W/R is prepared to expend to help a fellow Hog.
You may not agree with his viewpoint here Walt but he does deserve more than a derogatory BS.

Billyspad Loc: The Philippines

I think your answer is the obvious one many come up with but as a member of a forum who spends time and effort supporting it then surely we all have a right to express an opinion about it and the way it is run? If a member feels strongly that change is needed or could be desirable then posts like this bring it into the public forum where the issues can be debated. I do not see that as a bad idea at all.

As to starting new forums I would hazard a guess that W/R has similar views to myself and many others who look at UHH in a realistic way. UHH is owned and run by ADMIN who had the idea in the first place and started it. He and only he makes money out of it via advertising revenue and I say good luck to him he deserves all he can make for coming up with the idea in the first place.
People who start forums and moderators are not rewarded financially. Now I know monkeys work for free and some good folks who do charitable work also toil without pay but who, if they are fully in charge of their marbles, slogs away running a foto forum so Admin can make a living?
I once started a thread asking why people run forums and only one moderator replied with a lame excuse about putting something back! Ya know like polititions who always say that. My guess is that many forum leaders not just on UHH but across the web have lives where they are in charge of very little possible have a domineering wife and being in charge of a forum gives their ego a boost.
Just maybe W/R is like me not prepared to work for nothing and certainly not in need of the false feeling of power running a forum seems to give to some.
Just remember a man who works for nothing will always be busy.

Billyspad Loc: The Philippines

I think that is a very reasonable request Don and hope W/R takes the time to address it. I think you and I have spoken very briefly about things which maybe require fine tuning so Robs answer should be interesting.