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In The Year 2525
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Dec 4, 2016 14:21:24   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
Peterff wrote:
Most people here seem to be missing the point. Once in digital format things can be stored indefinitely without loss of quality from the original digital state, and it is relatively easy transform one digital format to a newer one. It is the curation that matters, and making sure that important content is managed and translated to contemporary formats.
All physical media is vulnerable and degrades over time. I'm certainly not against physical media, we have many books, prints hung on walls, vinyl LP's and so forth, but once captured digitally they take up exponentially less physical space, can be replicated with multiple copies in different locations and stand a much higher chance of existing for as long as our planet or presence in this universe does.

This is really about curation of information - images in this case - not physical media which can be reproduced when needed or desired.
Most people here seem to be missing the point. On... (show quote)

I do understand, but I think you have more faith than I do on the long term survivability of digital data based on my very really corporate experience. When I worked at JPMorgan as a software development manager I inherited a small but ancient dBASE financial application that was slated for eventual replacement, but in the meantime needed significant modifications to meet business requirements. The initial problem was the source code was missing for this small 10 year old system which hadn't be updated in several years.. No problem. Everything is backed up to tape and tapes were stored in a secure Iron Mountain facility. Except that the first two iterations of old backup tapes retrieved had read errors and the third tape backup was from a discontinued tape machine that was no longer available to us, requiring a search for an appropriate machine. We eventually were able to retrieve the source code, but it was clear to me then and clear to me now, that digital data is not necessarily a forever storage medium.

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Dec 4, 2016 14:39:42   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
mwsilvers wrote:
I do understand, but I think you have more faith than I do on the long term survivability of digital data based on my very really corporate experience. When I worked at JPMorgan as a software development manager I inherited a small but ancient dBASE financial application that was slated for eventual replacement, but in the meantime needed significant modifications to meet business requirements. The initial problem was the source code was missing for this small 10 year old system which hadn't be updated in several years.. No problem. Everything is backed up to tape and tapes were stored in a secure Iron Mountain facility. Except that the first two iterations of old backup tapes retrieved had read errors and the third tape backup was from a discontinued tape machine that was no longer available to us, requiring a search for an appropriate machine. We eventually were able to retrieve the source code, but it was clear to me then and clear to me now, that digital data is not necessarily a forever storage medium.
I do understand, but I think you have more faith t... (show quote)


Yes, I agree, which is why I raised the issue of curation of content. What you are correctly stating is that decade - or decayed - old software or data is still a problem, but making and verifying copies in contemporary formats can preserve the content, but it does still need curation. The data without the ability to interpret it is worthless. You are describing a lack of curation of the content which is a continuing process, not just archiving the media.

As you know, regulations for things like aircraft manufacturers and so forth can require information to be accessible, verifiable and replicable for several decades. Good luck finding a usable VAX 11/780 these days, but emulators can do the job to the appropriate standards. Talk to the guys at Los Alamos National Labs, we haven't done a nuclear test in decades, but the nuclear stockpile needs to function within seconds if anyone is insane enough to decide to use it. That is curation.

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Dec 4, 2016 14:41:39   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
Juor wrote:
And so goes the song by Dennis Zager and Rick Evans back in 1969, that song still makes me think of what will the future will be,back then i thought that by the year 2016 we all would be having vacations on the moon, but did not happen, which brings me to my worries, what will happen to my very precious photographs i have in my Dropbox acct. and on my external hard drives in the year 2525, will they still be around, well lets not go so far, lets say the year 2020, just only 4 years from now, will the technology change so much that i won't have a way of getting to my photos, so I've been thinking of a way to preserve my photos so my great great grand kids can say "Wow great great grand pops took good photos", the only way for that to happen is to print them and then to laminate them, making them almost indestructible.
What do you think ?
And so goes the song by Dennis Zager and Rick Evan... (show quote)

I don't see any reason why the pictures would be at any other place than they are today (despite all the change)!

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Dec 4, 2016 14:49:40   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
TriX wrote:
You're right - print the best, preferably in black and white and hang the ones you love. In our long back hall, we have well over a hundred B&Ws (no color) of family, friends, and the occasional event, some dating back to daguerreotypes, with lighting arranged gallery style. Not only do we look at them, but most visitors to our house do as well. They're interested, as are we, our children and grandchildren, in times past and relatives long dead. If you teach your children in that way, I doubt they'll be forgotten or destroyed when you're gone.
You're right - print the best, preferably in black... (show quote)

By the way, I still use floppy disks and Zip disks on occasion on my computer ( both of them)!

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Dec 4, 2016 15:05:42   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
speters wrote:
By the way, I still use floppy disks and their bigger brothers on occasion on my computer ( both of them)!


I just got done last month converting all my DVD's and CD's to external drives and back-up external drives. This is not just photos but Architecture materials and other documents. I started out with the 5 1/4" floppies to 3 1/2" and on and on.
I just update the data, and documents to current software as it is updated. After I die I don't care what happens as I will not be around to care and if no one else does then it does not matter. I do know many of my buildings will likely last anywhere from 50-100 years, then be obsolete but I will be gone again and not care.
I read NASA wanted to get some old data from paper tapes and had to rebuild a machine to read it as the old ones were destroyed.

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Dec 4, 2016 15:07:24   #
DRG777 Loc: Metro Detroit
 
Juor wrote:
Not only Dropbox i also have about 10 external hard drives already full, the first one was a one GB and the one I'm using right now is a 3 TB, the ones already full are stored in a waterproof container, and that is because i once lost a laptop with photos on its hard drive caused by a water leak in the house.
So it's not only dropbox.I also lost some photos stored in a desktop computer that had the misfortune of getting sick with a virus, unfortunately, the geek doctors could not resuscitate it and it died taking my photos to its grave.
Not only Dropbox i also have about 10 external har... (show quote)


First of all, I have always liked the song. Juor, if you have two independent sites of digital backup, then you are doing well. Monitor each of them from time to time and if one goes bad, make a new duplicate from the good one. When I get back from a vacation trip to a photogenic location, after I edit the keeper shots my wife and I make up a photo book and print a copy. It is a great way for sharing, and I find it more pleasant than look at the photos on a computer screen. I am going to retire soon and see if I can do this for other people as a side business for a little income. If you or anyone else would like me to do a book for you, send a message. Thanks.

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Dec 4, 2016 16:45:32   #
tomcat
 
Peterff wrote:
Most people here seem to be missing the point. Once in digital format things can be stored indefinitely without loss of quality from the original digital state, and it is relatively easy transform one digital format to a newer one. It is the curation that matters, and making sure that important content is managed and translated to contemporary formats.
All physical media is vulnerable and degrades over time. I'm certainly not against physical media, we have many books, prints hung on walls, vinyl LP's and so forth, but once captured digitally they take up exponentially less physical space, can be replicated with multiple copies in different locations and stand a much higher chance of existing for as long as our planet or presence in this universe does.

This is really about curation of information - images in this case - not physical media which can be reproduced when needed or desired.
Most people here seem to be missing the point. On... (show quote)


Digital format, yes. But not always true for CDs and DVDs. I tried to recover some pictures from a CD burned back in 2007 and it could not be read.

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Dec 4, 2016 17:14:29   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
tomcat wrote:
Digital format, yes. But not always true for CDs and DVDs. I tried to recover some pictures from a CD burned back in 2007 and it could not be read.


Exactly, hence my comments about format and media being very different things. Content rules, media of any kind is perishable....

So long as I have the content captured I can create new versions on whatever medium is appropriate....

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Dec 4, 2016 17:35:14   #
BudsOwl Loc: Upstate NY and New England
 
brucewells wrote:
I think we all fantasize to some degree about immortalizing our efforts, but there's a lot of truth in what Keldon says. When I think I have a really good image, I print it at 5X7 and hang it on a big board we have in the kitchen. It's gotten to the point when family/friends come to the house, the first thing they do is go to the board to see if they're on it. They also know that if they are, and they like the photo, they are free to take it. And, they know that if they want a larger print (or a digital version), all they have to do is ask. In my sober thinking, I believe this is as close as I can get to immortalizing my images.
I think we all fantasize to some degree about immo... (show quote)

Sounds like a great idea!
Bud



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Dec 4, 2016 18:16:24   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
Juor wrote:
.../...

You have way too much time on your hand and you think about 'posterity' this way you can really poick another occupation or hobby.

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Dec 4, 2016 19:01:28   #
cyan Loc: Northern NJ
 
rjaywallace wrote:
Juor, your great great great (and really nice) grandchildren will ALL say, "What's a camera?"


Yeah....like a typewriter....or phone booth.

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Dec 4, 2016 19:37:37   #
LFingar Loc: Claverack, NY
 
When I'm gone I doubt that I will spend much time worrying about any of it.

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Dec 4, 2016 19:41:26   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
LFingar wrote:
When I'm gone I doubt that I will spend much time worrying about any of it.


Your tag line does express that quite elegantly!

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Dec 4, 2016 19:45:53   #
LFingar Loc: Claverack, NY
 
Peterff wrote:
Your tag line does express that quite elegantly!


That line is the best piece of advice I ever received. Found it on a 99 cent novelty pin in a convenience store. The older I get the more I see the wisdom of it.

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Dec 4, 2016 21:32:38   #
aberration
 
The deeply infamous may stand times test. We as an international society, perhaps briefly on the earth, are quickly bored with the mundane. Some are curious as to family trees, and who(m) among their ancestors are swinging from the branches by a prehensile tail. If we are genetically and ecologically lucky our next generations will be around to wonder at our follies, and wisdom. if not......fade to black.

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