big-guy Loc: Peterborough Ontario Canada

Hi folks, just got back from a wonderful vacation to a dark sky preserve on Manitoulin Island Ontario with some wonderful results including northern lights. Also had a great chat with 2 guys, Mick and Mike, father & son respectively, and they told me to Google sky tracker. I did and have found 3 entries that I would like to know what you think.

1. iOptron SkyTracker
2. Vixon Optics Polarie Star Tracker
3. Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer Photo Package

All seem to be around the $500 mark including some extras for a workable system. I see that all 3 have extras involved for better blah blah blah...

After some research I think the Sky-Watcher is a better fit for the weight of the dslr, grip and 70-200 lens. But this is all new to me. Looking forward to your comments.

CraigFair Loc: Santa Maria, CA.

I too am interested in what comments you get here.
I use an adapter plate I made to fit my DSLR to
my Celestron CGEM mount.
Craig

SonnyE Loc: Communist California, USA

Hi Big-Guy,
Can I call you Pete, or Peter?
First off, it depends on how deep you think you might eventually slide into the Black Hole of sky shooting.

For me, I wanted to dive deep when I jumped. So I did a lot of research and decided to get a go-to mount so it could track an object for as long as possible.
Its taken me a lot of hours, and a ton of patience to get to where I'm pretty happy.

The mounts you mention are pretty good for Alt-Az tracking. And they depend a lot on your ability to set them up accurately each time. They will track reliably for a while, but not for a very long while. ("Whiles" being minutes to hours.)
So depending on your budget constraints, I recommend getting as much as can be stretched to, in as best as can be gotten.

For me it was as low end price wise as I could find in a Go-To Mount. Regardless of what I put on it.
Buy once, cry once. Which turned out to be Buy Once, get it fixed twice, live cautiously.
Of six of us here to get AVX mounts, 3 have had to do returns for repairs. A 50% failure rate in our tiny sampling is kind of disappointing.
I run mine strictly on a big 12 volt AGM battery since the second return for repair, and so far it has run flawlessly.

So if you are planning, or even not planning, to get sucked into the Black Hole of a$tro-imaging, consider stepping up with your mount considerations to a better base (mount) initially.

But what? If I had a do-over, I think I'd go HERE. For an example.
I know Ed (Nikonshooter) seems to be well pleased with his iOptron mount.

Early on, when shopping and researching I realized I wanted to bite the bullet and get a GEM type Go-To mount, instead of an Alt-Az type. Alt-Az is ok for visual, millions use them for that.
But you will find you will want a better (GEM, Go-To) for photography.

That's my opinion(s). Based on my limited experience, and frustrations.

astroturf Loc: vacaville ca.

Straight Shooter Loc: Newfoundland, Canada

I have an Ioptron Sky Tracker, and am pleased with it. It tracks well and setup is straightforward. There is an Ipad app to help with Polar alignment so that you can easily get it right on the mark. It is easily transportable, any reasonably stable tripod will suffice, and it runs on AA batteries. The payload is about 7 lbs I think (camera + lens). But bear in mind that you will not be able to use a long lens with it. Anything above about 200mm is going to really tax the tracking capablities. This is going to limit what you can photograph. Forget close-ups of moon craters, for example. Try a search to see the kinds of things that are within range. For the price, it's a good entry into the field. If what you really want is more deep-sky oriented than wider-field, you need a go-to mount (some suggestions have been made here) and telescope, which will cost you more of course, and be less convenient to put in the car and take off with, but will also open up more opportunities. It's worth thinking about where your interest really lies. Bear in mind that astronomy clubs sometimes have gear for loan/rent: a useful way of trying something out with emptying the piggy bank, only to find that's not what you actually need.
Good luck!

big-guy Loc: Peterborough Ontario Canada

Hi and many thanks Sonny, you can call me Peter. I have so much to learn and so little time... Would I be correct in my assumption that an Alt-Az is a simple tracker that is able to track earth movement based on a lock to Polaris and a Go-To is locked on several known points and can then extrapolate the movement of any particular target? My interest is purely night sky photography and not deep sky, at least for now. Currently I take many 20 second exposures and convert to either star trails or time lapse videos. Noise is my biggest pet peeve and after talking with Mike, previous post, he informs me that taking multiple shots can be stacked to improve signal to noise ratios and give a clean image with lots of pop. One thing I didn't see in your link to the iOptron CEM25 Equatorial GoTo Mount was an option for time lapse panoramas which is another of my favs. The sky watcher I was considering does give me several options for panning speeds whether that is night sky or day light. Straight Shooter talks about the Sky Tracker but it has a weight limitation when it comes to my setup. I don't have a driving need for the 70-200 as most of my work is from a fish eye with a 1.6 crop factor. Just heard it mentioned in the Sky Watcher video and thought about zooming in on a constellation or several.

Will your suggestion of the iOptron CEM25 Equatorial GoTo Mount handle just a camera and do panning? One of my main goals is to master the holy grail with a panning motion included.

big-guy Loc: Peterborough Ontario Canada

Thanks for the input SS. Yes, packing it in the car is a definite consideration. I'm not really interested in the moons craters but do have a soft spot for finding those Hassies left up there so in 20 years when I can afford the trip I can grab them up.

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

I have item #1. It works well and I have tracked using a 24mm lens on a full frame camera for up to 4 min with no visible star trails. And I have gone for 30 sec at 200mm with no star trails also. I suppose I could have gone longer.

The pros of this tracker is mainly it is easily transportable and no-brainer easy to set up. I place a small sack of gravel over the tripod cross bars which lowers the center of gravity and really dampens vibrations.

The cons are that it is very difficult to aim at your intended target. It helps a lot to use a red dot type finder and to mount it on the flash mount of the camera.

The heaviest lens I have tried is my Tamron 70-200 f2.8 and it seems to handle that lens OK even though it is quite heavy, especially with a full frame camera, although I often use a much smaller mirrorless.

I do have an equatorial drive and also a heavy duty Alt-Az type drive which can track more accurately than the Sky Tracker and can carry much heavier loads, and can find targets for me too. BUT, they are big and heavy and less transportable and much more work to set up. And considering I don't have that much free time, I often just grab the Sky Tracker just because I can set up in minutes.

big-guy Loc: Peterborough Ontario Canada

Thanks Jim, good to know.

TheDoctor Loc: NoVa

I have the Polarie and although it tracks quite accurately, when it is aligned well. I do like its accuracy; not a fan of the process though. The camera mount part has to be removed to insert the polar scope for "spot on" alignment. I've found that I almost always end up moving the mount when swapping the polar scope and threading the camera mount back in. An external power source is a must for extended use with any load even near the rated capacity.
I really like the different rotation rates the Polarie offers; celestial, solar, and a nice 1/2 speed setting that's great for time-lapse panning, (mounting the Polarie in a flat, horizontal plane). Also runs in reverse, (Southern Hemisphere).

I also have a Celestron SCT on an alt/as Go To mount. The Go To feature is great for "hopping around" viewing. Alt/Az mount is fine for visual viewing, but has limited tracking ability for Astrophotography without adding a wedge to give a decent polar alignment.

Budget issues aside, a Go To Equitorial mount would be the optimal choice...and while we're talking budget, ditch the 70-200 lens and go with a fast, (2.8 or better) prime lens.

dlmorris Loc: Loma Linda, Ca

I use the iOptron Sky tracker. You will also need a reasonable ball head to mout on the sky tracker, then mount your camera on that. I like the sky tracker because it has an adjustable equatorial mount built in, and also a polar alignment scope as part of the deal. You do need a smart phone of some sort to get the best results from it. So for wide angle shots, or mild telephoto, it is a great grab-and-go tracker for wide angle sky shots. I use mine often for such imaging, and am happy with it. If you are wanting to use longer telephoto lenses, or scopes of any size, then you will need to get some serious equatorial mounts capable of being auto guided. But in direct answer to your question, I use the iOptron tracker, and have no complaints.

nikonshooter Loc: Spartanburg, South Carolina

From what I gather, you do not need a EQ mount. So the ones you have mentioned are more dedicated to keeping your scope focused on one object - moon, sun, star, galaxy, and so forth. An AZ or EQ mount both fall into this category - GOTO simply means, the mounts' computer can GOTO a selected part of the sky and remain there (reasonably speaking) for long exposure photography.

To master the HOLY GRAIL.....if would help know if you are using Canon or Nikon. If Nikon, you will need to depend on software. If you use Lightroom then a must have is LR Timelapse by Gunther Wagner. This is amazing software that uses LR to correctly adjust the exposures, tonality, and as host of other LR adjustments features, over a series of time lapse images. To my knowledge, Gunther has the only software than can do this. If you shoot Canon, then you would still be advised to purchase Gunther's program but ....Canon can also use some hardware addons like "The Little Bramper" which you will have to find second hand as it has been discontinued....but Bulb Ramping or Bramping is a cool way for hardware to control your camera and make adjustments to Shutter Speeds to adjust as light either passes to night or visa versa.

An EQ or AZ mount will not allow for Star Trails as it's main objective is to maintain an exact focus on your target - producing sharp stars rather than trails

An AZ mount - if you bought anything will do just that (produce sharp stars) under 1 minute - if you should wish to expose for longer periods, then you would need an EQ mount.

You mentioned NOISE, the bane of astro imaging. Some cameras are going to produce noise at even low ISO's/ASA's if the shutter is on for 10 plus seconds or more. ...and some cameras can produce very manageable noise limits at high ISO's 3200, for example, at exposures at 2 minutes or longer. But given you have a camera that is prone to noise at 20 second exposures then your only option is to drop drop drop your ISO to 400 or less and try upping the exposure time to 40 plus seconds....try different combinations of ISO and Shutter to get the "sweet spot" of your camera - this would be the trial and error method for dialing in your most productive Signal to Noise ratio. Forget how the stars are doing sharp or blurry when doing this....just look for the least noisy image at a give ISO to Shutter combination.....if it turns out that you will need to up the shutter speed to 1 minute at say ISO 200......then you will need to consider an AZ or EQ mount.....or a new camera. Now things and decisions start getting even more hair - e - er.

I am attaching a PDF file by Russell Brown that may help....and WELCOME to the REAL Dark Arts!

Attached file:
(Download)

big-guy Loc: Peterborough Ontario Canada

Many thanks NS. It is purely enjoyable to get useful info from so many learned folks in this particular forum. With no tracking mounts I am stuck with the option of star trails from multi stacked images, single shots or a time lapse movie. I am starting to comprehend all this astro-photography jargon and it's starting to make my gas affliction kick into high gear. It's a good thing my skimpy wallet keeps me in check. As a point of interest I shoot Canon with the Magic Lantern hack and take full advantage of AETTR using xml and dual ISO along with the intervalometer. I have also been using LRT for a few years now but I just couldn't get jazzed up over stationary timelapse videos when I see all the other results from YouTube. The part that I am really looking forward to is being able to take multiple night shots with the same field of view and stack them to get nice clear noise free (or close to it) photos that have some real pop to them.

Thanks for the pdf link. I will pass this on to others in the club. I am including a shot taken from my vacation that show star trails and the aurora borealis. Look closely and you can see several spikes.

Gordons Dark Sky Preserve Manitoulin Island Ontario

CraigFair Loc: Santa Maria, CA.

Beautiful job Peter.
Craig

dlmorris Loc: Loma Linda, Ca

Really cool! I like it! Here is a shot using my iOptron tracker at 1/2 speed, so I could get about one minute of tracking without seriously trailing or blurring either the stars or the foreground. My processing could be improved, though...