whitewolfowner

[quote=whitewolfowner][quote=via the lens]Here is what "whitewolfowner" said: "I save myself a bunch of headaches; I do not use lightrooms cataloging system. I have my own and it works very well. I find it a real pain getting rid of the files it tries to keep against my will on the left; have to constantly keep clearing it out."

My response is that the program simply reflects your filing system; if you don't want a folder or photo to show up in LR, then do not import it; if you do not import it you cannot edit it; but once you do import it, it is linked and will always show up in your left panel, which reflects your very own filing system, unless you "unlink" it using the minus sign in the folders panel. I'm not clear why anyone would want to unlink a folder, since the folder being linked in LR allows you to conduct future edits and find it easily through key wording or metadata. LR does not have a "cataloging system" for your photos, the user does that and LR simply reflects that set up. The cataloging function is in regards to the edits one makes in the application. Also, let's say you import a RAW photo, edit it, then move it out of LR. The edit you made remains in LR and the edit will not show up on the photo if you open the file outside of LR, although there is a way to save the metadata in the xmp file that sits next to a RAW file. The "command-control S" should do this. Sorry it's all so confusing for people, hope I'm not making it worse.[/quot



Like I said, I have my own system. First I make two copies of the original raw files; one stays on the desk top, the other to a second hard drive for safe keeping. They are then turned into DNG files since Adobe has committed to support the DNG file and Nikon has not committed to support theirs and two copies are stored as before and the Nikon raw files are discarded. I never do anything with a file without having it backed up. I fix my photos, then output them in full jpeg and in DNG (file marked DNG-fixed). Then those files are loaded into the original DNG file. Then that file is loaded on a separate hard drive and also on my server which has double back up. This way I have triple back up. If left alone in the column on the left, it becomes a total mess and disaster which I neither need nor want (and if you ever accidentally change the file name, they are gone forever); it becomes a pain and can only be gotten rid of one file at a time. Leaving it up to lightroom to store all your corrected file information, gives you no backup (how many of you have thought of that) and if it ever screws up, you are lost. My way has the information stored three times and that to me is as valuable as the original files in many cases, especially if you have people coming later for prints and you want them to match from photos made previously. That's why lightroom's way of doing things is both senseless and a P.I.M.A. to me. The old saying applies here; if you want something done right, do it yourself.[/quote]



One more thing; if I didn't want to fix photos, for what reason would import them into lightroom for?

via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP

I think that whatever works for each individual is what works best, as long at that individual realizes what they are doing. I think exporting, I assume that is what you do, in a "finished" format is a good idea as the changes are then "baked in." When I import into LR I ask it to send a backup copy to an external hard drive, that external hard drive also backs up automatically to an external hard drive. My catalog is on the computer hard drive and is then backed up daily via the computer backup. I also back the catalog up manually to a third drive. I don't think the discussion was about a back up, but more along the lines of LR does not catalog files, you do that in the way you want, either linking to LR or not as you choose. LR does not make those decisions for you. If things are a "mess" it would be about your choices, not the LR application choices. That was my only point. All of my photos stay linked to LR and I can find any one one of them within seconds to use as needed. This is what works for me and may not work for you but I'd hate people to think that it was LR that was screwing things up. In my experience teaching the program I've found that many people have difficulty organizing their photos in a quick and efficient manner and many of them have very convoluted systems that are time-consuming and complicated and this leads other people to believe, upon hearing this, that is it the application that is mixing things up and then the application gets an undeserved reputation. LR is a simple, straight-forward program that works like a charm if one uses it correctly.

whitewolfowner

The point you're missing is that if the program does not give me the option to turn the cataloging feature off, and it does not as far as I see and you didn't offer a way to do it, then all the confusion the program creates for its users is the fault of the program. And from what I have seen on this forum, the catalog and it's confusion that seems to be clear only to those who really know what they are doing(I know the program for fixing photos but took one look at the cataloging feature and backed up with a ten foot pole that wouldn't get near the back end of cow), is the main reason people stay away from ligthroom. To me it's a P.I.M.A.; to many others it's a deal breaker that keeps them from using it. And the solution is to just have a switch to turn it off. The other solution and the solution to breaking up all other confusion for all software is to deliver it with an instruction book one can put in their hands on and leaf through to find answers. Internet instruction books are too hard to try to use and useless to anyone who doesn't have multiple screens.

You are an instructor and have no idea the problems and road blocks (even though you think you do understand) newbees run into when trying to learn this stuff. It is totally foreign to them and to many a skilled useage of the computer is to navigate through their e-mail. I have seen this in other instructors too.

via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP

The cataloging feature is not the application, only the edits. But, yes, the two are entertwined. You "turn the feature" off by clicking on the folder and then clicking on the Minus sign in the panel and then the folder is no longer linked to the program. You might consider Photoshop or PhotoShop Elements, ON1, Topaz, Affinity for Mac, GIMP, Picassa, Corel AfterShot PRo, FastStone or many other programs that I believe do not function the same way as LR. You can always use Bridge as a viewer or your camera software program as a viewer. It sounds like you just need a stand-alone application that lets you edit your photos and then file them away manually. All programs are different and thankfully there are many to choose from. I do understand how difficult learning any software program can be, they are complex. The best manual I've found for LR is the Help Manual that you find online right in the program. They explain the functions very well, although not in the depth I'd like. Good luck with your photo editing and perhaps give another program a try, you can use most of them free for 30 days and many are simply free to download.

Kuzano

I concur. I do all my own file management using Windows Live Photo Gallery, synched with Windows 10.

Because I have used Window File Explorer starting in Windows 95, I have transitioned easily from one version to the next of Microsoft Windows. If Apple/MAC appealed to me (and doesn't) I would have made the same choice on any MAC that resided in my Home.

I do not use LightRoom for any file management. I do not use LightRoom for any photo editing. I do not use CC or any other version of PhotoShop. I do not use any Adobe products after PhotoShop 7 which is many years old. I truly dislike Adobe.

Life is sweet. I have no problems with any Adobe products.

whitewolfowner

But it doesn't turn it off altogether, you have to do it individually for each file. I know how to do that and doing it for each file makes it a pain. Turning it off completely is what I'm talking about; then when it confuses someone (not me but others), all they need to be told is how to turn it off and they are done with it. Totally different from constantly being there hanging on you like a tooth ache and totally confusing the many that it does. Seems it is counter productive for the program in my book, since it turns away thousands of users. I have been using lightroom since lightroom 2; I'm not about to change to another without a really good reason but it sure keeps many from starting out with it. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA

When you import an image into Lightroom, you just are adding a record into the database, nothing more. To do anything in LR, you have to import it into the database. You can have your photographs scattered all over the place in whatever folder structure you want. Lightroom doesn't care. You are just causing yourself to work harder to find and catalog images if you do not take advantage of LR's capabilities.

I know, I used to be the same, using File Explorer to organize and manage images. Now, I let a purpose written program for Photographers handle the mundane tasks while I concentrate on being creative.