E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Hi, wedding folks! This post appeared in the general photography section of the HOG and I thought it should have been posted here in the WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHY department where actual working wedding photographers could furnish their input, opinions, agreements, and rants:

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There were many responses to this question and I feel strongly that it is worth the time, for wedding shooters, to go back there and give it a read. There was a wide variety of attitudes, some that were friendly and encouraging to serious wedding shooters and some which were full of many misconceptions, misapprehensions and unappreciative notions about the real job, the pressures undertaken and the responsibilities of the professional wedding photographer. I decided to write this “blog” to set forth a better understanding and dispel some of the underserved rhetoric that is often bandied about by amateurs who don't really understand the role of the professional wedding photographer. I decide to post it here because the original post is old, has long been scrolled away and I believe that what I have to say is important. So here's what I was gonna post on the original thread- it is here instead, please take it for what it is worth.

Here it is:

This seems to be an old thread that has been scrolled back up again and it is a topic or issue that has been discussed many times but still has relevance, at least to anyone who is seriously interested in wedding photography as a professional career, or serious part-time avocation. There are numerous posts here with many valid and intelligent points and opinions and some with issues that let's say, for the sake of civility and diplomacy, are somewhat debatable!

For those of you who do no know me, here's a brief bio: I have been involved in professional photography for 58 years-I started early, at the age of 14 as an apprentice (a nice word for janitor and gofer) in a New York City portrait/wedding studio. Wedding photography was my entry level job and I shot my first solo wedding at the age of 16. Wedding photography and fine portraiture remand part of my employment, freelance work and eventually my own business right up until the present and at 72 years of age, I am still shooting. I have probably photographed more weddings than most of my colleagues, cohorts, and online buddies- probably in the thousands! This volume of work is not because I am the greatest wedding photographer in the world but because of my very long tenure in the business and the fact that I worked for many years in New York City with its dense population and in an era when the “wedding industry” was booming at an exponential rate of growth. As an independent freelancer affiliated with several studios, each serving it specific ethnic, cultural, religious and societal group, in the season, I would work just about seven days a week and at least on four assignments per week even in the so-called off season. The studios networked closely with many catering establishments (wedding factories as the were called back in the day) , hotels, halls, florists, wedding planners and other vendors and service people. There were a lot of kickbacks, payola and all sorts of shenanigans but there was no shortage of work for a competent and ambitious photographer- that would be me! One of my arguments is that there is still room for great PROFESSIONAL wedding photography even in this day and age of digital photography and mass amateurism. OK- I have been around for a long time but I am a progressive guy. I shoot traditional bridal portraiture, photojournalism and lots of stuff in between. I seldom advertise but still book at a decent rate and all of my business comes in on a referral basis. I do not work at cheap rates- my minimum order is in the $5,000+ range and most of my final orders exceed that figure. I know that rates like this will not go over well in all geographic locations and in all socioeconomic circumstances but I want to make a number of important points that have to do with this thread and more!

So here is part of my rant! There is a lot of “sour grapes” in many of the arguments in this and other threads- people saying that there is no money or profit in wedding photography anymore! I disagree! My philosophy is that if you have a superior product, great service, outstanding images and good promotional and business savvy, you can successfully sell your product and services at a huger price and a decent level of profit. Folks are willing to pay more for what the perceive as better value. People that are unsuccessful in the wedding photography business are either not producing anything of exceptional value, have little or no business acumen, or quite possibly, have the required artistic and business talents but, sadly enough, they are killing themselves in the wrong marketplace. This may seem mean and harsh but I have observed this for a very long time and I know that I speak the truth! Sometimes the truth is bad news- I hate to deliver bad news but it sometimes it helps folks to realize things, improve their attitudes and then that can lead to the creation of good news!

Some folks are of the opinion that professional wedding photographers want to restrict others from taking pictures at their wedding assignments because they don't want any competition and other folks taking pictures will cut down on the “print sales”! This is a typical misconception and example of poor business practices on the part of many wedding shooters. In my own case, I have never taken on a wedding assignment on speculation. If I am gonna spend an entire day on the job and many hours of detail work- pre and post production- ain't no way I am not gonna get well paid for my time, talent, efforts, materials, assistants fees and all my overhead expenses related to the job at hand and that includes a fair and decent profit. It costs money to run a business and we all need to eat, support our families and maintain a decent lifestyle- that's why we work hard and always seek to satisfy our clients who entrust us with their wedding photography and pay us with their hard earned money! What I am advocating here is not a mercenary attitude, it's just good business. If I can not make a living from my work, pay my employees well, cover my business expenses and show a profit, I can not remain in business and continue serving my community with good work and good service.

There is also a serious misconception that amateur photographer can produce work that is as good as or better that many or most professionals. OK, granted, there are many talented and artistic amateurs out there and perhaps there are occasional cases of “beginner's luck” but competent, consistent and high-quality wedding photography requires many skill sets that may not be apparent, on the surface, to the average amateur photographer. One of theses attributes is CREATIVITY AND PERFORMANCE ON DEMAND. Covering a wedding properly is not a casual or hobby kind of thing- it's a serious assignment and a one-time event that can not be repeated or re-shot! One has to be ready to perform at a very high level regardless of one's mood, physical wellness, or state of mind! If you ain't in the mood, are suffering from a headache or become uninspired, you can't opt out and do it some other time! You can't join the party and participate in the celebrations, you can not become even mildly intoxicated, you can't chase the pretty bridesmaids or handsome groomsmen around the venue in order to “socialize” because you are there to work! There is no room for delays, lateness, tardiness, laziness or any kind of procrastination! Preparedness is mandatory, essential and of the utmost importance. You need to own spare equipment so that you can cope with any malfunctioning gear issue which can occur at the most inopportune times as per Murphy's Law!. You must make sure you vehicle is in perfect operating condition and allow plenty of additional time for travel. Every move has to be carefully pre-planned with your clients and even the best-laid plans can go wrong, so you have to be able a ready to shift gears to accommodate just about any unwelcome or unknown surprise.

You camera operation have to be swift, nimble and just about second nature because there is no time to fumble with your equipment. The consummate wedding pro has a good grounding in formal portraiture and group photography as well as fast photojournalistic skills. A comprehensive knowledge of traditional, religious, ethnic, civil and even unorthodox wedding procedures and customs are prerequisite to proper wedding coverage in that the photographer always has to be at the right place or position at the right time to capture all the essential images and any and all the impromptu situations that may pop up.- one must know how to anticipate the action! All of this comes with proper training, education and most of all and most importantly, experience!

OK- as to the original question about the restriction of OTHER PHOTOGRAPHERS shoot at professionally covered weddings. In my own case, for many decades, I have had certain clauses in my contracts stipulating that I am the official and exclusive photographer for the event and that no other photographer, amateur or professional, can photograph the event or operate any photographic or lighting equipment without my approval and supervision. Here's the philosophy: I have no intention of becoming a wedding dictator or a bully! I don't want to push folks around or curtail their enjoyment of the wedding celebrations or their picture-taking fun activities. I just want the have the authority and the permission of the bride and groom to control things if they really get out of hand to the point where theses activities will seriously hamper my efforts to do my work in a reasonable and effective manner. In all my years on the job, I may have had to enforce this “authority” on three or four occasions where the amateur shooters really became overly obnoxious, interfering and totally distracting. This is where the photographer requisite PEOPLE SKILLS come into play. The fact is if you put out good friendly yet professional “vibes” most folks are nice and accommodating and will return your good vibes in kind and cooperate.

As for the legalities: I am not a lawyer but I can tell you that we live in a combative society- that's where folks are always suing each other. Again, in all my years in this business, I have never heard of a professional wedding photographer taking action against an amateur photographer, a wedding guest or someone's Aunt Tilly, Uncle Oscar or Grandma for “unauthorized” picture taking at a wedding. So- this question of third party binding or interference is all moot and somewhat silly. I have, however, have heard of numerous cases where significant and serious lawsuits were launched against “professional” wedding photographers for non-performance, incompetent results and all kinds of other real or imagined complaints and therefore, is it not wise and prudent for professional photographers to take certain protective and preventative measures, on behalf of their clients, to preclude serious third-party interference in the performance of their contractual duties? Think about this.

So again...I have said that I don't wanna be a wedding photographer bogeyman but let's look a the downside of uncontrolled amateur participation in your professional wedding photography coverage. Let's be fair and examine both side of the argument that a wedding should be a free-for-all for all the folks with cameras, cell phones and all of the other various and sundry devices that can be used for takin' pictures. I always tell my brides and groom about overzealous amateur picture taking and how it can become obnoxious, distracting and invasive. Most folks listen and try to curtail, minimize and avoid too much of this activity. Let's be honest and realistic- some folks don't listen to any professional advice even when the pay dearly for it- they don't listen to their doctors, their lawyers, their accountants, their plumbers or their contractors- let alone their photographers. Some people put out their money and the proceed to sabotage the efforts of their own paid professionals- it part of some people's human nature. Then they complain bitterly if or when things go wrong! So what can go wrong? Plenty! Read on!

Amateur photographers, shooting “over you shoulder” can cause all kinds of distractions when you are trying to shoot formals, groups, casual portraits or romantic images. Here is where expression, eye directions and alertness count and all kinds of extraneous activities can be totally counterproductive, delay things when time restrictions or limited windows of opportunity are factored in. Whenever possible I always try to isolate the couple, their bridal party and their immediate families for theses sessions. Even were strictly candid or photojournalistic scenarios are concerned, well-meaning but annoying folks can dive in front of your lens where split-second shooting is required. Worst of all, a “Paparazzi” of cell phone shooters and “selfie seekers” can disrupt sacred ceremony situations and cause the ejection or admonishing of all the “:photographers” by the church officials, including the hired professional who has been completely non-obtrusive and discrete during the entire ceremony. Sadly and unfortunately enough, I have seen things like this go down!

Please see part 2...

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Part 2 of Ed's Blog

Another problem! Oftentimes, many of these “Paparazzi” show up in many of our candid photographs and, unfortunately, this just looks obnoxious, silly and distracting as it is in real life. It's OK for a few fun shots but after a while, it becomes a visual pain in the butt! So...here you are trying to produce something with artistic merit and you are being encumbered at every effort.

There are more bad possibilities like folks with flash units can prematurely set off your remote off-camera light(s) if they are controlled by older type photo-electric cells rather than radios or IR systems. This can lead to poor lighting or underexposed frames if your units do not recycle in time for your shots. Other flashes before your shot can cause closed eyes in crucial images. People using high-output video lights can cause exposure problems, flare, and ghosting. So it is not a matter of prints sales or being a mean, selfish or overbearing photographer- it can be a matter of preserving quality and service, maintenance of decorum and reasonable and dignified working conditions and atmosphere at the wedding.

Think about this: Would any normal guest at a wedding think of bringing in musical instruments or a sound system and interfering with the musicians or the DJ? Would they go into the kitchen and supervise the staff or bring along a pot-luck dish of pulled pork to a formal dinner reception? Would they chime in during the sacred part of a ceremony? So..why should they have “open season” on the photographer? It's just common sense and courtesy to allow the professional photographer to do his or her job in the best way possible! It's the best way to ensure that the bride and groom will get the very best results from their photographer's efforts.

Look a both sides of the issue and post your thoughts.

Weddingguy Loc: British Columbia - Canada

Hi Ed,

I believe we have a very similar background since I started my photographic career at age 17 as an apprentice and started shooting weddings at age 21. I am just starting to wind down my photography business at age 78.
My photography, people and organizational skills are still intact, but keeping up with the fast pace of the wedding scene has started to present some challenges.

I agree wholeheartedly with your explanations above. I never have had an "exclusive photographer" clause in my contract, but probably rarely needed one because of very thorough talks with the bride and family prior to the event, as well as a system of getting the bridal party and family away from the guests for all my formal portraits and group shots. During the reception my "crowd control" skills took over. Over the years I did have two situations where that clause would have been a huge benefit and saved me lots of grief . . .so with those memories, I would recommend that it be added to all contracts today, and like you suggested, be used with discretion and common sense. I was also very lucky to be working in Canada where "suing" was a rarity, so protecting one's self legally was not as big an issue.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to clear the air for the aspiring photographers that believe that their "Auto" setting include handling a most challenging event.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

Ed, I actually removed the clause several years ago, for many reasons that you state above. I'm now thinking that I should add it, just so it is there, and then only actually bother mentioning/using it if things are out of hand. I've only had one wedding that was truly out of hand, and that happened to be last year. The only thing is, with this particular couple, if I would have listened to my gut, I should have turned them away in the first place. My gut was right.

Very good post. It's going in my file of great advice.

Bob

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

I wrote this "blog", at first, out of a bit of anger but I am not a naturally angry kinda guy! I just got a little bit "sick and tired" of some folks' attitudes toward wedding photography and the goods ladies and gentlemen who work hard at what oftentimes is a thankless job! As I have said many times in the past, wedding photography is not for the faint of heart or the lazy photographer! Many veteran wedding shooters have given up a lifetime of weekends and evenings, and family time to accommodate the needs of their clients and have sacrificed lots of "blood, sweat, and tears in the performance of their duties. It's not exactly combating in a war zone bit there are "those days" when it is mentally and physically taxing- to put it mildly.

So many times I have come across, in various photo forums, people posting the idea that the are gonna do a friend's or relative's wedding without any significant experience. I always WANR them that the may be letting them in for a serious lawsuit, lost friendships, and/or angry or disgruntled bride. I don't know which is worse, sarcastically speaking, I world rather take my chances with a judge than with a mad bride! Point is, no one usually takes my advice so I, nowadays, usually refrain from reading them the aforementioned "riot act" and perhaps give them a few tips as per shooting lots of frames and bringing along spare equipment with the hope that beginner's luck and the law of averages see them through the ordeal! I would like to say " may the GOOD LORD be with you as you walk through the valley and the shadow of death" but that would be morbid and some folks are not religious or don't believe in God- so I might substitute the words "the powers that be" or the universe"! OK- so I have a weird sense of humor but I am sure y'all get my point!

The usual "arguments" are that many amateurs take better and more natural professionals but, as far as my experience goes, that is a crock! Well, come to think of it, there is some truth in that myth in that some "so-called" professionals do lousy work and can indeed be outdone by a talented amateur, however, this is not usually the case! This should, however, be a signal to practicing wedding pros to keep up with the times, always look for new ideas and improvement and not to become complacent! If your work is no better than the amateurs- you are gonna be in big trouble! Perhaps in smaller towns, there is not much competition and some photographers have been "getting away with murder" but one never knows when some real talent and savvy can show up on the scene. In larger cities, my attitude is that if one does not do a great job and offer exceptional service, there is always a bunch of other guys and gals, waiting in the wings, to take over the bulk of the work so one has to stay on their toes. Then,of course, there is always the attitude of self-satisfaction in one's work. My trick for staying alive in the business for a very long time is that I am my own worst critic and my own worst competitor! I always seem to have a "hate" relationship with my own results and always want to do better. My wife thinks I am crazy- maybe I am but it works for me- try it!

My favorite comedian was Rodney Dangerfield because of his famous tag-line "I get no respect"! Well, sometimes we all do get respect from the clients that we work hard for and that's why they entrust us with their most important events and why the recommend us to their friends and family members. Well, folks- if you want respect you need to give respect to your customers, to the hard working wedding professionals who are out there on the front lines and to yourselves. Self-respect comes with knowing that you are doing your best work and that you are getting well paid for your efforts.

Ed

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

Right on point Ed!

Just yesterday, I turned down a wedding, because I got "the" vibe. You know, the one that basically acted like the photography was something that they were only doing, because it was "expected." I spoke to her for a while trying to get a feeling for what she felt was the most important thing about the wedding. It wasn't the photography, which I didn't expect, but it also wasn't any of the usual answers. She said "I don't know, my mom has dreamed of this day for a long time. We've lived together for 3 years, so really, none of it is THAT big of a deal"

My newest philosophy is that if they aren't excited about the wedding, then my photos will capture that lack of emotion. I don't want my name on a lack luster wedding album. It sounds crazy, but like you said, I give up my weekends for people (it isn't just the money, I LOVE weddings, when the people are really into it.. Nothing worse than me, as the photographer, being more excited about the biggest day in their lives, than they are. I just won't do it any more.

I guess that's the biggest benefit to being older and being able to decide which events to do, and which to avoid.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Good morning, Bob!

Theses are no doubts in my mind that over the years and generations many things have changed, especially in the family dynamics part of wedding attitudes and philosophies. In my own case, I do allot of ethnic weddings where there are more respectful approaches and regard for the parents and the family elders. Some of my American/Canadian brides won't give their parents the pleasure of allowing them (the parents) to participate and fully enjoy the day. The don't realize that it may be the last (official) thing the do for their parents' benefit, enjoyment and profound pride in their children! I call them a bunch of ingrates but I don't tell them that! I guess that attitude is part of the "ME" generation.

Then, on the other hand, I have served couples that are on their second or third marriage, have lived together for ages and have hoards of children and yet, they are as enthusiastic about their wedding day as younger folks on their first time around.

I was only 16 years old when I started shooting weddings so nowadays younger photographers ask me how I got away with it- "a KID showing up to shoot a wedding"? Well- I had an older kinda face, I was a big guy and most of my brides were not very much older than me- back in the day, the average age of the brides was about 19. Theses days, most of my couples are older and more established and of course, they know EVERYTHING! My secret weapon is MONEY. The old philosophy that "MONEY TALKS AND BS WALKS" works for me in reverse. When they pay me lots of money, the tend to listen to my advice in order to get their monies worth! Why should they sabotage their own investment?

I never expected to be the "top priority" guy at a wedding and in fact, when I am not shooting the formals, I prefer to be a "fly on the wall " and go unnoticed so I can get better candids of the goings on. I don't, however, like to be considered as a necessary evil to be tolerated but not related to.

No matter how well we manage our work and try to filter out potentially difficult clients, I am sure we have all had "those days" where we wonder why we have chosen this profession. I used to ponder; "Why did I not listen to my grandmother and become a dentist like my cousin Harvey"?- "This job is like pulling teeth anyway and I ain't getting paid as much"! Thing is- as true professionals. we still come up with a good job regardless of the occasional trials and tribulations- it just ain't as much fun! I hate when that happens!

I know how to roll with the punches and make do with bad situations and I am not a temperamental kind person. In all my years, I can only remember one job where I had to "tell off" a client! I recall that I did business with the bride and her family and never met the groom. Everything at the bride's home and the church went smoothly but when I arrived at the reception, the groom tapped me on the shoulder and gave me the following instructions: "You will sit on a chair in the corner of the room and I will wave you on whenever I want pictures taken"! My response was simple- just a reverse version of his plan. I said, "No sir, YOU will sit on that chair and I will wave you on when I need you to pose for me"! Well- that was the end of that little conversation and things then proceeded as normal without any further ado! That was a long long time ago- I wonder how long that marriage lasted- my assistants and I were taking bets on the way home!

Perhaps some day I should write a book! Any ideas for a title?

Best regards and thanks for the feedback!

Ed

Tim Stapp Loc: Mid Mitten

Book Title: "War and Peace." Oh, wait that's been taken:)

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

Ed, I probably didn't word it very well. I don't "expect" to be at the top, or even mentioned, in the list of important things about the day. What I'm trying to do in the conversation is to find out what strikes a chord with them, so I can tailor the shots toward their emotional "triggers" for the album, and photos in general. If they are really interested in the details, or emotion, or family, or... I use those conversations to figure out how to "build" the photo album, etc. My issue was that when I asked questions about what was important, the way she responded was pretty much......"nothing, I'm just doing this because my parents expect me to." I would love to do more weddings this year, but with things that happened, I got a very late start, and may not get any, but...... I still have had a few that taught me, if the bride doesn't "care" about the day, it's not going to be worth it for me to give up a Saturday, because there won't be all the things, emotions, etc.. that make it worth my while. I don't want to take on a job, just to do it. If I do too many that I don't enjoy, I'll turn into one of those people putting down the wedding photography vocation. (OK, I can't see myself really doing that, I still just absolutely love doing them, but my point is, I don't HAVE to take ones that I don't feel good about)

Now, seriously, I put some thought into this. There are a lot of books on "HOW to shoot a wedding" I think your advice on the business itself would be a gold mine of information.

"Listen to Ed, Damnit.... The RIGHT way to run a wedding photography business."

I would buy the first copy. (and want an autograph)

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Bob!

Funny that you mention "being the most important guy at the wedding" kinda thing. Back in the day, when I was training people to shoot weddings for a New York City "wedding factory" I used to use a "training philosophy" I learned by horrible experience in boot camp- it was called break 'em down and the build 'em up"! Back in basic training, for the first couple of weeks, we, the new recruits, were told we were a bunch of useless idiots and the once we were just about totally dehumanized, they told us we were gonna be great soldiers once we learned to do things the "Army Way"! OK- as a photography trainer, I made a lousy "drill instructor" and I never told anyone that they were useless or stupid, however, I did ask my new crews to forget about all the myths, misinformation, and silly stuff they though the knew about photography and clear their minds of potentially bad habits. I had to teach foolproof procedures as well as creative approaches.

So...so to build up their confidence and instill some fair warning at the same time I told them to consider themselves to be the most important service person at each wedding but to not tell anyone that or become invasive or bully-like at any time! Why did I tell them this? Well, during the wedding day the bride and groom and their entire wedding party may have many other priorities and the other folks like the clergyperson, the caterer, the florist and perhaps the wedding coordinator or even the janitor may have more "clout" than the photographer! After the wedding day is over, HOWEVER, if the photography is not up to par or the expectations of the couple have fallen short, all the other service folks will be forgotten and the failed photographer will be the priority and the primary focus of the disgruntled clients when it comes to serious and scathing complaints. loss of reputation and even nasty lawsuits.

Bob- you are 100% right! Building a great relationship with each bride and groom is essential for superior results in their wedding photography and for smooth operations throughout the wedding day. We can't be front and center in their minds all day long but once they realize that we are there for them, understand their expectations, desires. likes and dislikes, our jobs become easier. more creative and artistic and more personally satisfying.

Another facet of the job that many people don't realize is that, of all the other service folks, we spend the most time with the bride and groom. We consult with them before the wedding day, oftentimes do an engagement session well in advance and on the day itself we are "on them like white on rice" and if we are good at it- they don't even feel that or notice us all that much- we are like stealth fighter aircraft at night! So- if there is anything we can do to make their lives easier and their day more pleasurable while we are there- I am sure we all make every effort to do so. If I ever write my book, I will have a chapter on first aid for fainting brides and grooms, tips on sewing up torn seat seams on ill-fitting tux trousers, calming down nervous brides, parents, and bridesmaids, repairing wilting bouquets and broken buttoners and breaking up the odd fight and only once did I have to call the cops- that would take up an entire post!

Here's the main thing- the photographer's attitude, savvy and charm will reflect in every image he or she makes. If you are happy, content and professional this will show up in all the expressions in your images. If you are uncomfortable, unhappy and summary pissed off- well- what can I say?

Kindest regards, Ed

Tim Stapp Loc: Mid Mitten

Ed, let us know when you have the book done and when we can pre order. I want to be first on the list.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Well- the other day I heard someone say something on TV- I think it was in the CNN political coverage of the DNC Convention. Whoever it was said that we need to make things better for our kids and the future generations- which I agree with. The way he put it is that some of us have MORE YESTERDAYS than we have TOMORROWS! That hit home for me because that is the case for me at my age!

In terms of my profession, I put in allot of years with my share of successes and failures, lucky enough, there were more wins that losses! Although most of my work, nowadays, is more diversified and in the commercial field, wedding photography and fine portraiture are still my "first love", my original entry level into the business and long time passion which I still engage in and therefore, it remains a part of my present day business. It my teaching and training endeavors, I always hoped to pass on my experience and know how and in doing so, perhaps making things better and easier for new generations of photographers- especially in the wedding and event field. Problem is, many of the newer generation have a resistance when it comes to listening to older guys- there is a ton of ageism out there- not only in our business. So...I don't think my publishing a book would be a "hit" or a successful venture. It has also been a long time since I was on the speaking and seminar circuit so I am a little-known quantity. Over the last number of years the has been too much nasty arguments, rather than constructive debate, between traditional wedding shooters and the so-called photojournalist stylists. In fact, however, the consummate wedding photographer should master both skill sets. A good combination of the old and new schools enables a greater client base and a more comprehensive coverage of each wedding.

At this stage of my time on the planet, I kinda confine my "teachings" to training folks for my own studio business so that they can carry on after I am gone and by my showing up here on the forum every now and again- perhaps this will help the odd reader- if this helps one guy or gal- I''m good with that! Sorry folks, you won't find me on the New York Times best seller list or on sale at Amazon! Even here, there ain't too much action in the wedding department. For those who are interested in what I have to say- just tune in here once in a while or ask me questions- do it quickly before I laps into dementia- some of my family members think I already have- little do they know. I'm gonna write them out of my will- how morbid is that? I wanna have the last laugh on that matter! Ed

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

I think I fall into the "odd reader" category, because your posts help me.

It is a little sad that we don't have more "action" in our corner of UHH, but on the flip side, we also don't get into the personal attacks, and trolling that the busier sections seem to attract. For that, I'm VERY thankful.

I now have my new assistant, and am training her (day job), and I have a temporary new boss, so I don't need to train him. He's pretty much a rubber stamp right now, so I am able to get back to this section more again.

I do hope that we get some more posts and activity, but on the other hand, if we get nothing else but words of wisdom from our resident superstar (that would be you, Ed), then this section is still better than most. In my humble opinion.

bk

picsbywayne Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Guys,

I am a relatively "new" wedding/event shooter with only a few functions under my belt. Due to some strange circumstances, I was the only shooter at all of them.

I probably had no right to do the first wedding I did but I have worked in the wedding/catering industry for many years and I have a good feel for how the overall day has to flow. In all cases, my clients have been pleased but I for one know that I need to continue to learn to provide the best value to my clients.

I appreciate all of the feedback and suggestions that you "more seasoned" shooters are able to provide. I haven't had to deal with an overly obnoxious crowd at this point but I do know that a calm head and pleasant but firm manner are as much a part of my tool kit as my lenses and my flashes.

Keep providing your viewpoints gentlemen - they are appreciated - even if we don't pipe up as often as we should to say "Thank You!"

Wayne

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Hi, Wayne! Thanks for your comments and rest assured that they are appreciated! For yourself and anyone else, on the Hog, who is new to wedding and event photography, it would be more beneficial to yourselves and to the wedding section of the forum as well if there were more questions, answers, and opinions. This kind of participation encourages more activity and growth.

Oftentimes, newcomers to the industry are reluctant to post basic or even more complex question because they fear embarrassment or snide responses from the more experienced members. Fortunately enough, this is not the case in this part of the Hog or in comparison to other online photo forums. We are a small group here and the conversations are always cooperative, friendly, informative and helpful.

You have an advantage that you may not be aware of. Haveing been involved in other aspects of the wedding and event business, you probably have many insights and experiences that many other new photographers have not as yet gained. Knowing how things flow and what client service is all about is a very important part of the job.

Crowd management is an import skill set to have but there are many others that should be discussed here- they are numerous. Equipment selection, flash technique, portraiture techniques, lighting dynamics, album design, exposure issues, business management, sales methods, promotional ideas and post production methodologies are just a few of the topics that should come into questions, answers and good clean debates and discussions.

As the say in my old hometown of Brooklyn, "Don't be a stranger"! Come on y'all- do some posting around here! No question is too basic or too advanced!

Kindest regards, Ed