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May 31, 2016 17:38:26   #
RWR Loc: La Mesa, CA
 
RWR wrote:
I'm thinking that it should be simple enough to design a teleconverter with a built-in motor to move it's elements to auto focus no matter what lens was attached, and that the topic is relevant to the original question.

rmorrison1116 wrote:
Seriously? A TC that will AF regardless of lens attached?! No one makes a TC that even manual focuses. A TC with "focus" capability would be large, heavy and expensive and impractical.

Yes, seriously. The Nikon TC-16A autofocuses VIA the camera's motor displacing the converter's elements internally. One can even autofocus a lens with no focusing mount, as an enlarging lens on a bellows, for example. No mechanical or electrical communication between camera and lens is necessary. And the TC-16A is light and compact. Modern autofocus motors add little bulk or weight to a lens.

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May 31, 2016 17:40:02   #
RWR Loc: La Mesa, CA
 
Peterff wrote:
Well, if you can do it at an acceptable market price you may have a business opportunity, and all speed to you. Many of us clearly don't see how it could be done, so a prototype and a patent filing could be good next steps.

As an example, a Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 L costs about $1350. A used Canon FDn 50mm f/1.2 L can be picked up for between $450 and $700, so to be worthwhile a motorized adapter would need to retail at say $250 or less, which would mean a manufacturing cost of say < $100 and a very small market unless it worked on several FD series lenses. That would assume that it could have close to equivalent optical performance to the EF 50mm f/1.2L and equivalent functionality. If you can design something like that, then there could indeed be an opportunity, since most of us don't seem to think that it is simple enough to do. Perhaps you do have the magic sauce here and we just don't see it.
Well, if you can do it at an acceptable market pri... (show quote)

See my reply to rmorrison1116 above.

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May 31, 2016 17:59:42   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
RWR wrote:
See my reply to rmorrison1116 above.


Yes, I did, and I personally think you are missing the point and have a rather naive perspective on the situation, which is why I crafted my response to lay out the challenge to you. If you think it can be done simply, then do it, and profit from it. If you can do this, then actually do it, and reap the rewards. If you know how to do it, don't tell other people, build it and see if there is a market for it.

So to put it simply, several of us here don't think you know what you are talking about. I was trying to avoid being that explicitly blunt. You may be able to do something in a very limited circumstance, possibly even something that hasn't been done before, but with so many of these things there is a market of between one and a thousand people, which is not a financially viable thing to do from a business perspective.

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May 31, 2016 18:10:24   #
rmorrison1116 Loc: Near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania
 
RWR wrote:
Yes, seriously. The Nikon TC-16A autofocuses VIA the camera's motor displacing the converter's elements internally. One can even autofocus a lens with no focusing mount, as an enlarging lens on a bellows, for example. No mechanical or electrical communication between camera and lens is necessary. And the TC-16A is light and compact. Modern autofocus motors add little bulk or weight to a lens.


The TC-16A still needs a focusing motor, the one in the camera body. It only works on a few Nikon bodies and is only meant for fast lenses. They made the TC16-A as a stop gap device when AF was becoming immensely popular and NIKKOR had a limited selection of AF lenses. If it was such a great idea then why didn't they, Nikon, follow up on it. Because it was a temporary solution to a fixable problem.

Making such a device for modern Canon DSLR's would be cost prohibitive. Not only would it need an on board focus motor, something the TC16-A didn't have, it would need an on board CPU and the correct firmware to make it all work. Canon's not going to make one and I seriously doubt they're going to supply anyone who would attempt to make one with the necessary software needed to make it work correctly with Canon products.

It is an interesting idea but in todays fast paced high tech digital world, not very practical.

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May 31, 2016 19:07:44   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
rmorrison1116 wrote:
The TC-16A still needs a focusing motor, the one in the camera body. It only works on a few Nikon bodies and is only meant for fast lenses. They made the TC16-A as a stop gap device when AF was becoming immensely popular and NIKKOR had a limited selection of AF lenses. If it was such a great idea then why didn't they, Nikon, follow up on it. Because it was a temporary solution to a fixable problem.

Making such a device for modern Canon DSLR's would be cost prohibitive. Not only would it need an on board focus motor, something the TC16-A didn't have, it would need an on board CPU and the correct firmware to make it all work. Canon's not going to make one and I seriously doubt they're going to supply anyone who would attempt to make one with the necessary software needed to make it work correctly with Canon products.

It is an interesting idea but in today's fast paced high tech digital world, not very practical.
The TC-16A still needs a focusing motor, the one i... (show quote)


Yep, nailed it!

In addition, Canon has nothing to gain by addressing this issue. They took a painful decision close to 30 years ago to break compatibility with their previous 30 years or so of manual focus lenses. Every lens since the introduction of EOS and the EF series of lenses in 1987 will work on Canon EOS bodies, film, or digital, with exception of the derivative families designed explicitly for APS-C or MILC bodies, but the pure EF lenses can work on anything in the EOS family. The MILC bodies just need an inexpensive adapter to take EF or EF-S lenses.

The commercial considerations are huge, Canon gets quite a lot of criticism from some in the Nikon world about the lens mount change, but it propelled them to the market leader in the DSLR landscape. We do not know what the future will hold, since things are once again in flux with the M43 and MILC products entering the market.

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May 31, 2016 19:25:21   #
RWR Loc: La Mesa, CA
 
There's a rumor that small, lightweight inexpensive lenses with built-in autofocus motors may already be on the market. Probably in the future I should only respond to those who can understand what they read.

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May 31, 2016 19:44:50   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
RWR wrote:
There's a rumor that small, lightweight inexpensive lenses with built-in autofocus motors may already be on the market. Probably in the future I should only respond to those who can understand what they read.


Depending upon how you define "small, lightweight inexpensive lenses with built-in autofocus motors" that is clearly true in some instances. However, that does not generally include adapters that can take any lens designed as a manual focus lens whether old or new and turn it into an "autofocus" lens. I think you need to be explicit here about what exactly you mean. Do you remember those old days when some companies advertised simple plastic film cameras as "fixed autofocus"?

For reference:

RWR wrote:
Right. It is of very limited use. I mentioned it as the only device of the type that I'm aware of. Canon probably could have made something similar if there had been enough demand.

RWR wrote:
I'm thinking that it should be simple enough to design a teleconverter with a built-in motor to move it's elements to auto focus no matter what lens was attached, and that the topic is relevant to the original question.

RWR wrote:
Yes, seriously. The Nikon TC-16A autofocuses VIA the camera's motor displacing the converter's elements internally. One can even autofocus a lens with no focusing mount, as an enlarging lens on a bellows, for example. No mechanical or electrical communication between camera and lens is necessary. And the TC-16A is light and compact. Modern autofocus motors add little bulk or weight to a lens.


None of these things can turn a manual focus only lens into a functioning autofocus lens in a normal photographic situation. Of limited use, possibly, but that doesn't appear to be the way that most people use the term "adapter".

There appear to be some aspects of lens design and physics that are in conflict with your assertion. If you have specific examples to support your thesis, please present them.

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