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Monthly Masters' Critique - May 2016 - Velazquez's The Kitchen Maid
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May 2, 2016 09:46:08   #
Billyspad Loc: The Philippines
 
minniev wrote:
The boundaries between the artistic and documentary are so confounding for photographers, and so much less so for artists in traditional media. I recently posted a swamp shot which some folks thought needed a bird or a boat or something else to draw interest, so I added a bird. It always feels a little odd to me when I do that because I know that bird wasn't there. But he might have been there some other day, though it doesn't really matter since I'm not entering it into any competition or trying to pass it off as documentary. These confounding thoughts may drive much of the argument about SOOC and editing...
The boundaries between the artistic and documentar... (show quote)


Your making an image and trying to make it as interesting as possible usually. Whilst there may be a market for images lacking in impact and reliant upon mood etc its going to struggle for appeal so if a bird in corner helps put it in and remain silent!!
What folks do not know does not harm them.

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May 2, 2016 10:15:14   #
pfrancke Loc: cold Maine
 
in the first image, she seems pensive, tired, perhaps holding on. In the second image she seems to be listening intently to what might be going on in the other room.

In the bar scene, amazing how adding the knees changes the story - from "after work chill" to "the approach".

No question that when major components are cropped out, the story changes. The essence of why all photography is a lie. (So you should always feel free to tell your own story). When taking a scenic image, the sign post should always be missing!

face of a moth
face of a moth...
(Download)

moth mountain
moth mountain...
(Download)

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May 2, 2016 10:20:11   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
pfrancke wrote:
...When taking a scenic image, the sign post should always be missing!
LOL - good advice. Except I saw one pic on UHH where the creek's colorful and whimsical name on the rustic sign added a lot of interest.

Piet, your creativity with this composite is fantastic! Fascinating to see what you used as background.

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May 2, 2016 12:10:01   #
minniev Loc: MIssissippi
 
pfrancke wrote:
in the first image, she seems pensive, tired, perhaps holding on. In the second image she seems to be listening intently to what might be going on in the other room.

In the bar scene, amazing how adding the knees changes the story - from "after work chill" to "the approach".

No question that when major components are cropped out, the story changes. The essence of why all photography is a lie. (So you should always feel free to tell your own story). When taking a scenic image, the sign post should always be missing!
in the first image, she seems pensive, tired, perh... (show quote)


I was wondering if someone would mention the appearance of listening. I felt the same. Yet her expression and posture are the same. It is my perception that changes.

You have surely showed us how an image can morph totally. Your other-wordly composites always amaze me.

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May 2, 2016 16:16:35   #
jenny Loc: in hiding:)
 
Arrrrgh, Minnie, where did you find this? This, whether 1st or 2nd image, does not at all reside in my memory bank. Later, when there is time I may be able to look up the list of "Other Resources" you add in your introduction. For now I'm gong to rely only on memory.

First, I've probably looked at the reproduced illustrations of paintings of the famous artists throughout the centuries as much as most people seriously interested in art. Is this unfamiliar because authenticity that both were done by Velasquez has never been firmly established? Or is its unfamiliarity due even more to be in a class of unsolved mysteries that interest ONLY art historians, making it one of them to be even less authentic in the opinion of most ?

It would be well to know and consider Velasquez' life and the history of the times before commenting that he held the position of official court painter. As such, his position depended on pleasing the royal family to the extent that he did flatter them. As for the times, it became necessary to keep his personal opinions to himself even to save his life. It is well known there was an official Velasquez and a personal one who was tormented by what he saw that was happening. While we are mostly remembering him for his family portrait, after all he was a painter, and as such he would paint....so privately he did do one, (maybe more, don't remember), canvas that reflected his inner turmoil.

The most puzzling part of the 2nd image to me is that there is depth to the small scene in the corner, suggesting it was meant to be taken seriously. Yet it seems a bit odd, a bit beneath his standard even. I don't think he would have done this second one at all. I'm not even sure the first one is about a kitchen maid. Although I don't speak Spanish, we see enough of the language these days in this country to recognize any words relating to a kitchen or to a female. The title in fact suggests a racial distinction, not an occupation. Am I way off the mark with my observations???

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May 2, 2016 16:42:06   #
minniev Loc: MIssissippi
 
jenny wrote:
Arrrrgh, Minnie, where did you find this? This, whether 1st or 2nd image, does not at all reside in my memory bank. Later, when there is time I may be able to look up the list of "Other Resources" you add in your introduction. For now I'm gong to rely only on memory.

First, I've probably looked at the reproduced illustrations of paintings of the famous artists throughout the centuries as much as most people seriously interested in art. Is this unfamiliar because authenticity that both were done by Velasquez has never been firmly established? Or is its unfamiliarity due even more to be in a class of unsolved mysteries that interest ONLY art historians, making it one of them to be even less authentic in the opinion of most ?

It would be well to know and consider Velasquez' life and the history of the times before commenting that he held the position of official court painter. As such, his position depended on pleasing the royal family to the extent that he did flatter them. As for the times, it became necessary to keep his personal opinions to himself even to save his life. It is well known there was an official Velasquez and a personal one who was tormented by what he saw that was happening. While we are mostly remembering him for his family portrait, after all he was a painter, and as such he would paint....so privately he did do one, (maybe more, don't remember), canvas that reflected his inner turmoil.

The most puzzling part of the 2nd image to me is that there is depth to the small scene in the corner, suggesting it was meant to be taken seriously. Yet it seems a bit odd, a bit beneath his standard even. I don't think he would have done this second one at all. I'm not even sure the first one is about a kitchen maid. Although I don't speak Spanish, we see enough of the language these days in this country to recognize any words relating to a kitchen or to a female. The title in fact suggests a racial distinction, not an occupation. Am I way off the mark with my observations???
Arrrrgh, Minnie, where did you find this? This, wh... (show quote)


To be honest, I've always liked the Emmaus version for exactly what Piet said about it, and how there can be a story inside a story, even in pictures.

You are right the the Mulata title related the ethnicity of the kitchen maid. It's still the same conundrum. At one time, from reading all that I've found on this pair, the Chicago version was suspect until recent research methods more positively identified it. I have also read speculation that the figures might exist in the dark corner of the Chicago version, covered up, but research has not shown that to be so (The figures in the Ireland version were covered up at one point in its history, and revealed by later restoration). When you get a chance, I hope you'll follow the links. The one from which the double picture was taken is a French-only site that compares them, so if you speak French you may be in luck to learn more than I. All sources seemed to agree that the paintings were done very early in his career, when he was 20-22 years old.

Emmaus was a popular subject during the time these were done, so perhaps he simply followed a trend. Or perhaps the royal family wanted it done this way. We can only speculate. But that there are two versions, one with the guests and one without, was what drew my attention.

Oddly, some of the most fascinating reading about the Ireland version was found in Robert Bringhurst's translation and analysis of ancient Canadian aboriginal poetry, A Story As Sharp As A Knife, a wonderful book that I'd have a hard time classifying but found very compelling.

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