Old Timer Loc: Greenfield, In.

I just bought a used 7D and trying to get the focus set. The party I bought it from just used center focus and had every thing configured for that. I am trying to set it up to use all the features. I have went c fc III and set every thing and all works except the cluster groups. I have went to various sights and can not find any advice. I have even done a hard reset. I have change the point selection and reread the Canon manual. I have check You tube and other sources and google the problem with out any luck. I have a field manual on the way but I am not sure it will help. Any advice will be appreciated.

bedgmon Loc: Burleson, Texas

As a novice with a 7d I will offer suggestions. There are some outstanding folks that have a great deal more knowledge than myself. Does the focus work on Auto? That might be a clue if it works that the general focus is working. Also, look at the quick button. You can change the type focus there too. The button on the far right should change styles of focus and there is a small button at the top by the shutter release that works for me. You will get many replies that will help. I just wanted you to know hoggers do read and will help.

Old Timer Loc: Greenfield, In.

As I said I have change the focus quick menu as well as focus function in the main menu, ever thing works except the cluster groups. I must be missing some thing, I have been trying to figure it out for 3 or4 days.

heyjoe Loc: cincinnati ohio

reset camera to factory settings

Old Timer Loc: Greenfield, In.

I have done that, even a hard reset.

bigwolf40 Loc: Effort, Pa.

Maybe try calling Canon and they will be able to walk you through it....Rich

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

A hard reset will cancel a lot of settings that I use on my 7Ds, re-set them to factory defaults.

First thing you should do is check if your 7D has firmware 2.x installed. Canon gave the camera a real refresh with new FW after it was on the market for 3 or 4 years. Compared to 1.x FW, it's a whole different camera with 2.x FW!

Now, a short course on the 7D's AF. I've been shooting with a pair of them for over five years and have a little over a quarter million clicks on the two cameras. They still work great and are high performance cameras, though I've just bought a pair of 7DII for some of the new features.

Back when they were new, there were no good guide books about 7D and it had an entirely new AF system with features not seen on any other Canon cameras. It was a real steep learning curve the first 2 or 3 months... I almost gave up and went back to using 50Ds instead. After all, I was getting upwards of 95% acceptably accurate focus with those. Initially, I really struggled with the 7Ds and saw a lot more focus errors. Then I learned how to use them.

SHORT COURSE on EOS 7D FOCUS SYSTEM, based upon my own experiences:

First, use it as simply as possible, as much as possible. The AF system is highly customizable for specific situations... All those possible settings and tweaks can be very helpful when used correctly. But they also can get you into a lot of trouble, when used wrong (don't ask me how I know :roll: ).

7D uses a discrete chip to run the AF, similar to what 1D-series cameras do. Most other Canon share a single processor that handles AF and images. The 7D has dual Digic 4 that handle the images, while a separate chip runs the AF. This is what makes them so fast and good at tracking movement. Paired with fast focusing lenses (such as most Canon USM), focus can be near instantaneous in reasonably light.

7D are not exceptionally low light capable, though. They will struggle at times my older 5DII can still focus (about 1 stop lower light) and the newer 5DIII or 6D are even lower light capable. Still, in all but the worst light, 7D AF will out-perform most of those full frame models.

7D also have a shutter release similar to 1D series, which makes for a very short shutter lag, better sealing and greater durability. That, it's AF performance and the 8 frame per second shot rate all add up to make it a pretty darned good fast action/sports camera. It excels at AI Servo focusing. For sustained shooting you do need reasonably fast memory cards (my slowest are 300X and 400X, but most are 800X or 1000X). I don't shoot video, so can't comment about that.

But, let's get back to the AF system, starting with...

FOCUS MODES and BBF:

7D has the usual One Shot, AI Focus and AI Servo focus modes that are found on most Canon cameras (1D-series don't have the amateurish AI Focus mode).

AI Focus is an auto mode that I haven't used it on any EOS model in at least 15 years. It's supposed to decide for you whether or not a subject is moving, then switch to the appropriate focus mode: One Shot or AI Servo. Last time I tried using it (which admittedly was many years ago on older camera models), I felt it slowed things down, sort of paused while it was trying to decide if things were moving or not. It also sometimes used the wrong mode. Suffice to say, I get better results, more keepers, using other modes and haven't set any Canon SLR or DSLR to AI Focus in over a decade.

One Shot mode is for stationary subjects... can't be used with moving subjects. It achieves focus, then stops, locks and gives you "focus confirmation". But if the subject or you or both move, focus will be off unless you consciously re-do it. You have to lift your trigger finger and reapply it to cause the camera to refocus. With faster moving subjects, forgetaboutit! That won't work and more of your shots will miss focus than find it.

AI Servo is continuously updated focus for moving subjects and is what the 7D really excels at. This mode never stops and locks... it just keeps updating and adjusting, to constantly correct and maintain focus on moving subjects as long as you maintain pressure on the button. There is no "focus confirmation" in AI Servo, which some people find disconcerting in 7D... You have to learn to "trust the camera" and yourself, because at times it doesn't appear anything is happening. But if you manually de-focus the lens, you'll see it quickly re-acquire in the viewfinder.

AI Servo also is very helpful with some modern zooms that are "varifocal" designs. This is lower cost and less complex, requiring less calibration (compared to "parfocal" designs), but a varifocal zoom doesn't maintain focus when you change the focal length. Shooting fast and zooming in and out a lot, in One Shot mode you have to remember to re-focus... But AI Servo mode will automatically correct the focus of a varifocal zoom on the fly.

So, why not use AI Servo all the time? It will focus on a subject that's not moving, same as one that is in motion. Well, the problem is that you have to keep the AF point right on the subject all the time, while AI Servo is running. Let it slip off and the camera will make the lens focus elsewhere. Same problem if you are using a multi-point focusing pattern (which the 7D has more of, than most Canon do... more about those below).

This is where a popular sports/action/wildlife technique comes into play: Back Button Focusing (BBF). This separates AF control from the shutter release, putting it under your thumb so you can start and stop AF whenever you want, while tripping the shutter whenever you wish with your fore-finger. With BBF, you can leave the camera in AI Servo mode all or most of the time.... and still be able to use techniques such as "focus and recompose" with stationary subjects. BBF puts the photographer more fully in charge of when and where the camera focuses. BBF is particularly appropriate on a camera that excels at AI Servo mode shooting of sports and action, such as the 7D.

BBF is extremely easy to set up on 7D. In fact, it's already set up... assigned to the AF/On button on the back of the camera. To fully utilize BBF, it's just a matter of removing "start AF" from the shutter release button (half press). Go into the menu, Custom Function IV, 1: navigate to the shutter release button icon (first item) and change it to the center option "Metering start" (also starts IS, if the lens has it). This removes AF from the shutter release. It's still active on the AF/On button, on the rear of the camera, so BBF is all set up.

However, you also can optionally swap the functions of the AF/On and *(AE Lock) buttons... which are the second and third items on the Custom Controls menu. This makes the * button serve for BBF, and moves AE Lock function to the AF/On button. I do this on my cameras because the * button is bigger, more prominent and closer to my thumb. It just seems more logical to use it to control AF, which I do on every single shot... and let the smaller, more recessed and distant AF/On button serve for AE Lock, which I only use occasionally. (Note: There is an option to set AE Lock all the time... which I typically do not recommend. There is good chance you'll see a lot of incorrect exposures if you use AE Lock on every shot. There may be some special situations where you may want to use this, but in general it's not a good idea for most people.)

FOCUS PATTERNS:

7D with it's 19-point AF array has choice of five different point patterns (Canon calls them "areas" at times) to choose among. As you have already discovered, these can be enabled or disabled in C.Fn III, 6. To choose a pattern you use the AF selection button in combination with the M.Fn button to toggle through the patterns you have enabled. I have all five patterns enabled on my cameras. Eventually you can decide for yourself which you want and if you can turn some off.

7D shares two of its AF patterns with all other Canon DSLR models: All Points/Auto Selection and Single Point/Manually selected. These are pretty much just what their names make them sound like and can be found on every Canon DSLR.

7D also have Zone, Expansion and Spot Focus patterns. (Note: 7DII with it's 65-point AF has seven patterns, the same five as original 7D, but two different Zone and two different Expansion patterns. 70D and T6i/T6s that use 19-point AF that looks similar to the original 7D's only have three patterns: All Points, Single Point and Zone. I'm not sure what the 80D, which is getting a new 45-point AF system, will offer.) Following is a bit of info about each AF pattern. I suggest you experiment with them a little at a time and see what works for your particular purposes.

All Points/Auto Selection is the one I use least... hardly ever in fact. It leaves it up to the camera to decide where to focus. Usually it will focus on whatever is closest and covered by an AF point. It also can be "attracted" to movement. One possible use is shooting a single bird against a plain sky, where there isn't any other object or detail to possibly distract the AF.

Single Point/Manually Selected is the mode I use the most. like the previous owner of your camera. This puts me in charge of where the camera and lens focuses. If there's a focus error, it's most likely my fault and I can't blame the camera and lens! All 19 points in 7D are better "cross type" which makes them good performers using this mode. The center AF point is a further enhanced diagonal cross type with f2.8 and faster lenses. I leave mine set to the center point unless I have reason to choose another. (Often, shooting fast action doesn't allow time to change... so I try to frame subjects slightly more loosely, so that I can crop an image a little later, so that everything doesn't end up perfectly centered all teh time.)

Spot Focus (not to be confused with Spot Metering) is my next most frequently used. It might be better called "High Precision Focus", since it's essentially the same as Single Point, but uses a smaller AF point that works better for certain things. I call it a "Birds in Trees" focus pattern, since it's handy when you need to try to focus past a tangle of branches. Spot Focus is slightly slower than Single Point, so may not be something to use all the time. Also, the smaller AF point can be more challenging to keep right on a moving target. Still, it's handy for a lot of things.

Expansion Points is another that I find useful sometimes. Here you choose the "starting" AF point for the camera to use, but the four points immediately to the right and left, above and below that starting point also can be used, if you accidentally let the first point slip off the subject. This can be useful when a subject is moving erratically, changing directions.

Zone Focus is sort of like a scaled down version of All Points. Unlike Expansion, with Zone any of the active AF points can "start" focus (same as All Points)... It's left up to the camera to choose (usually whatever is closest and covered by an AF point). This is another that can be useful for Birds in Flight or similar, as described above. I use it fairly rarely, more often than All Points, but not as much as Expansion, and neither of those nearly as much as Spot or, especially, Single point. Part of this has to do with what I shoot and my own methods for shooting it... You might find some other things work better for you.

TWEAKS AND CUSTOMIZATIONS:

There are a number of ways to further fine-tune AF in the 7D. I won't get into them all, but will highlight a few that I feel are the most important.

Top of my list is C.Fn III, 1: "Autofocus/Drive AI Servo tracking sensitivity". This controls how quickly AF is to jump to a different object, significantly closer or farther away, should you have an obstruction or let the AF point slip off the subject. Although the settings range from "slow" to "fast", this doesn't effect focus speed. It effects how quickly the AF will jump to a new object. I (and many others) find it useful to set this a notch toward "slow" a lot of the time. I always do when I'm out of practice, but might dial it back up towards "fast" later in the season when I'm doing my job more smoothly. I think setting it toward "slow" may make the camera slightly less quick to respond when a moving subject changes direction. That might be the only negative to the "slower" setting.

I leave C.Fn III, 2 set to it's default 0. This tells the camera it's okay to slow down shutter release or frame rate, in favor of more accurate focus. To me focus precision is important... so I prioritize it with this setting.

C.Fn III, 3 I set to 1. Continuous AF track priority, which really only comes into play when using a multi-point pattern (Zone, Expansion or All Points). This tells the camera it's okay to switch points when needed, to maintain focus.

C.Fn III, 5 is used to Micro Focus Adjust up to 20 different lenses on your camera. See the manual for instructions or get a software such as Reikan FoCal to do it for you.

C.Fn III, 11, "AF assist beam" I have set to 2. external flashes only (which use a subtle near-IR grid to help focus, instead of the obnoxious white light strobe that the built-in flash would use if it's left enabled).

C.Fn III, 12, "Orientation linked AF point" needs to be used with care, if at all. With this you can set up the camera to use different selections depending upon whether you're holding the camera in landscape or portrait orientation. I've experimented with it and I think it slows down the camera a little each time you change orientation... so I shut it off. However, some may find it useful for less fast and furious shooting than I'm doing. If setting it up, be aware that you not only can set up different AF points depending upon orientation, you also can have different focus patterns. For example you might have Single Point in portrait orientation and Zone in landscape. It's also important to note that there are actually three possible orientations: landscape, portrait with the camera's grip at the top and portrait with the grip at the bottom. When you program in your choices, you must be sure to set all three or the focus system can strange things unexpectedly!

That's it. There are other things, but IMO they are less important. I recommend setting up Single Point/Manual Selection and BBF, then the tweaks I've noted... then get out and use the camera. By all means experiment with other setups... but start out simply and with you in as much control as possible.

7D is not an easy to use camera... It's not meant to be! In it's day it was Canon's first and most pro-oriented APS-C models, designed for experienced users who are unlikely to rely upon automation, folks who want to take control of the camera and it's setup themselves.

You can download the manuals online, from Canon website. I also strongly recommend specific 7D guide books such as David Busch, Charlotte Lowry or Michael Guncheon's.

By the way, the 7DII's manual is now 548 pages, about 100 pages bigger than the original 7D's... plus there's a separate 50 page manual just about the even more complex AF system! In fact, the 7DII manual has gotten so thick that Canon doesn't even print the whole thing anymore (cheapskates!)... There's an "abridged" 180 page printed version included with the cameras.

bedgmon Loc: Burleson, Texas

I knew someone would come up to the plate!

Old Timer Loc: Greenfield, In.

By the way, the 7DII's manual is now 548 pages, about 100 pages bigger than the original 7D's... plus there's a separate 50 page manual just about the even more complex AF system! In fact, the 7DII manual has gotten so thick that Canon doesn't even print the whole thing anymore (cheapskates!)... There's an "abridged" 180 page printed version included with the camera

Thanks for the info and all explanations. I am understanding and beginning to practice some. The one part I can not get to show or work is the clusters or as I believe you called them zones to be used I believe to be used in Al servo. I have reset and got ever thing else set as it supposed to be I believe. I have copied and pasted what you sent and is much appreciated. I will check on the update. Maybe I am getting in a hurry but I would like to at least familiarize my self before I go out side and start practicing. I am getting use to the focus on still and and macro
bfb. but I would like to be able to use the zones also. Again thanks for all the help.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Incidentally, to me "hard reset" might mean several different things.

There are two different "factory default resets": one "Clear all camera settings" in the main menu itself (which I avoid because I don't want to have to go thru and reset all my preferences, such as grid display in the viewfinder, auto image review off, short sleep mode duration, etc.) There's also a "Clear all custom functions" option that only addresses the Custom Function settings.

You also can force the camera to reset itself by removing the main battery (or "batteries" if using a vertical/batter grip).

It's also possible to force the camera to more fully "reboot", by removing the main battery(ies) and the smaller date/time battery, then turning the camera on, pressing the shutter release once (won't fire, but this drains any remaining power in the camera's circuitry), then reinstall the batteries. When this is done, you get full reset of all menu and custom functions.... and will even need to reset time and date.

I have only had to do that once on one of my cameras (and hate having to do it). For some reasons, I couldn't get the camera to switch AF focus pattern. It kept reverting to one I didn't want. A "reboot" fixed that... but I had to go through and reset everything else while trying to keep shooting with the camera.

As to your problem with the "cluster groups", I'm assuming those are All Points, Zone or Expansion Point patterns. Assuming you have those enabled (check mark next to them) in C.Fn III, 6, next check to see if you have C.Fn III, 9 set to 0: "disable" or 1: "enable". If set to ""disable", you'll see all the AF points when selecting the pattern, but when shooting only the active AF point is displayed (this is the setting I use). If set to "enable", all the AF points (of the selected pattern) remain shown in the viewfinder both when shooting and when making your pattern selection. I don't care for this because I want to know what AF point is actually being used, when using any of the multi-point AF patterns.

Another possibility... are you using the "Green box" fully auto mode? This is super automation... dictates a lot of things other than just exposure. It limits the type of files that are saved, the focus mode, the metering mode and much more. I absolutely never use it, so honestly don't now if it will also limit your choice among the focus patterns on 7D. But it might.

I would recommend using P or "Program" if you want full auto exposure, which still allows you to set up other things as you wish. There also is "CA" or "Creative Auto" mode, which is sort of like "training wheels" for new users. It walks you through making some of the exposure settings, with wizards on the rear LCD screen helping you make selections. It's a good learning tool, but slower to work with so probably not something you'll want to continue using after you feel comfortable with the camera.

You also mention the "quick menu" and there are a couple of those on 7D. One is activated with the "Q" button, which calls up a quick access screen on the rear LCD that you can navigate to set controls. This is particularly handy if shooting in low light situations, where it's difficult to see the buttons, dials and top LCD screen.

Also within the camera's menu there is a user-definable quick access tab... the green star on the far right. Here you can put 5 or 6 of your most frequently accessed menu items, in order to access them most quickly and easily. For example, I have mine set up with: Format, Battery Info, Mirror Lockup, White Balance and Custom White Balance. This gives me fast access to these while shooting. I leave my camera set to the green star tab, so it's the first thing that pops up. Using it I can insert a fresh memory card and format it in a few seconds, for example. Someone who uses other things a lot might place those items on there instead. It's completely customizable. (7DII allows you to set up multiple of these... perhaps for different shooting situations or for different people sharing a camera.)

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Old, don't know if this will help...., but depending on your lens' speed not all clusters may even BE available.
The fast lenses, one of the reasons they are made is to take advantage of more cross and dual-cross sensors and clusters for better/faster AF.
Change to a faster lens, like a 50mm and see if some of those clusters you can't see suddenly appear!
Just a thought. ;-)
SS

Old Timer Loc: Greenfield, In.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help. Hopefully I will get this solved. I have a field manual ordered and waiting on it. I have searched on line and You Tube and not found the answer as of yet. I believe the response this eve may have the answer if I can go through all the info. Thanks to Amphoto1 and Sharp Shooter. Maybe this eighty year old brain will finally get all this info digested. Again thanks to every one.

Old Timer Loc: Greenfield, In.

The hard reboot I referred to, I did remove both batteries. This was recommended by some one on a search I did on the subject. I did it twice to no avail. I am sure I must be over looking some thing as I have tried many things with out any luck so far. I am not sure how much I would use the zone groups but would like to get comfortable using them in case I wanted to.

TommiRulz Loc: Corpus Christi, TX

From a 7D Super Fan - congrats and don't give up. It took me almost a year to finally be comfortable with all the focusing tricks of the 7D. Read and re-read Alan's post over and over. I have printed out many of his post and keep them in my bag. Another good resource is a video made by Michael Andrew -
http://www.michaelthementor.com/store/
He makes a 7D training course that I found to be very helpful.

Old Timer Loc: Greenfield, In.

I have saved his post and will study it in the future over and over. There is You Tube video that is good and he shows you step by step but there is some thing I am missing or my camera is not set right. I will hopefully figure it out or as the old saying goes die trying. I am checking the firm ware updates also.