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Masking – Ok I cannot sleep again... PS CC (or any product that uses masks)
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Feb 8, 2016 06:46:27   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
tdekany = mentally deficient thingy

Credit: Franquin (Cauchemard)
Credit: Franquin (Cauchemard)...

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Feb 8, 2016 06:49:47   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
PhotoArtsLA wrote:
There are plugins for Photoshop which allow you to make adjustments Zone System style.

Once again, there are plug-ins. I would like to find one instance when I said that there was none.

The idea is to learn, once again.

Zone I Green = Levels; Blue = Curves, extended; Red = Curves, strict
Zone I Green = Levels; Blue = Curves, extended; Re...
(Download)

Zone 1 wide selection in a 'real image'.
Zone 1 wide selection in a 'real image'....
(Download)

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Feb 8, 2016 06:55:36   #
Billyspad Loc: The Philippines
 
Rongnongno wrote:
If you try the instruction instead of babbling you would be able to verify much more than if I posted something that could be faked...

But then again that is no one's forte here.


So we can assume from your answer that it is very true. You can indeed talk the talk but are not capable of walking the walk.

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Feb 8, 2016 06:59:36   #
Jcmarino
 
Rongnongno wrote:
I am in the process of creating actions to create masks that will use the zone system instead of the 'regular' mask creating actions (That I have already hacked to death - See long ago postings).

I have basically discarded the mask* Level** option for being too wide and basically crap (in my opinion). I have selected the curve*** option instead. The mask then is much more pointed and can be made to adjust the output more precisely than when using Level.

I get the feeling that I am digging my own grave here...
check out Jimmy McIntyre, he has created Rya Pro that does this but he also shows you how to do it manually. You could create your own action by expanding on that.
Anyway, I am unable to find the range of luminosity needed for each zone. I have tried three different charts (downloaded from internet) and found three different value when probing them for value... If you have those, can you post them?

--
* Alt-Click To enter the mask edit mode
** Ctrl-L Level adjustment undo-able, this is not a layer****
*** Ctrl-M Curve adjustment undo-able, this is not a layer
**** This is undo-able only by using Ctrl-Z after the edit. If you do something else after that, CRTl-Z becomes a problem, better start the mask edit from scratch...

------
Here is how to try:
Open any image, it does not matter.
Click on channel tab
Ctrl-Click on RGB channel
Click on mask icon
Name this 'Base' (You will need it to compare the masks created)
Remove the selection (Ctrl-D)
Duplicate the Base mask three times
Name:
Mid-range - Narrow
Mid-range - Wide
Mid-range - X-Wide

Click on Mid-range - Narrow
Ctrl-m to enter the Curve option
On the lower point to the left enter the values 0/111
Click anywhere to create a middle point, enter the values 127/127
On the upper point on the right enter the values 0/143
This create the most restrictive Zone 5, the range is only 32 and the output 50% (127)
Click OK
Note that this mask change is permanent and you cannot adjust afterward.

Click on Mid-range - Wide
Ctrl-m to enter the Curve option
On the lower point to the left enter the values 0/95
Click anywhere to create a middle point, enter the values 159/127
On the upper point on the right enter the values 0/159
This create a restrictive Zone 5, the range is 64 and the output 62% (159)
Click OK

Click on Mid-range - X-Wide
Ctrl-m to enter the Curve option
On the lower point to the left enter the values 0/63
Click anywhere to create a middle point, enter the values 255/127
On the upper point on the right enter the values 255/191
This create a restrictive Zone 5, the range is 64 and the output 100% (255)
Click OK

You have three very different Mid range Masks

You should experiment on your own with this stuff as it will allow you to create incredibly pointed masks.

The interest in using this that you not have to mess with inverting the mask in order to adjust the dark. Ctrl-Click on the channel mask to select it.
Click on RGB (if you have not done so already)
Click on adjustment layer, the mask is created, as usual when using a selection to create a layer.
I am in the process of creating actions to create ... (show quote)

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Feb 8, 2016 07:05:53   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
Billyspad wrote:
So we can assume from your answer that it is very true. You can indeed talk the talk but are not capable of walking the walk.

Yes, it is very true that you are incapable of considering that posting images is not essential.

The capture above is made to isolate the effects, nothing else.

If you take the pain to try you will understand how this works but then again, once again, why try? After all, this is all talk.

The answer of... well, select what you want.

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Feb 8, 2016 07:11:33   #
tshift Loc: Overland Park, KS.
 
tdekany wrote:
Your reaction should be to post one of your award winning shot to shut people up. You are just like Apolfo - Couldn't take a decent shot if you tried. How sad is that?




:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Feb 8, 2016 07:12:26   #
tshift Loc: Overland Park, KS.
 
Billyspad wrote:
Look Rongo folks aint asking the earth are they. You spend an awful long time talking the talk, all they want is for you to prove it by walking the walk ie post an image where you have used this technique which will wow the crowd and keep your critics quiet. Very very simple.



:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Feb 8, 2016 07:28:00   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

If I disturb you so much, why on earth do you pay attention?

Are you all mentally ill or something?

Personally the folks I find irritating I just ignore them.

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Feb 8, 2016 07:36:46   #
tinplater Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
 
Rongnongno wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

If I disturb you so much, why on earth do you pay attention?

Are you all mentally ill or something?

Personally the folks I find irritating I just ignore them.


Sometimes there is a fine line between amusing and irritating. And sometimes, like a superficial itch, you just have to scratch it (sometimes). I know a lot of perfectly sane people who occasionally scratch.

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Feb 8, 2016 07:37:56   #
Trentc Loc: Denver, CO
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Do you know how to create the stuff yourself or do you just 'use it'?

That is the real question isn't it?

Learning or copying?


Who cares? The end result is the same, isn't it? One has a tool with which to edit photos. The goal, for me anyway, is to take and edit the photos that I like, not waste endless hours obsessing over how everything works on the back end and not having any photos that aren't worth looking at. I just want it all to work (camera, software, etc) when and how I want it to.

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Feb 8, 2016 08:24:20   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Rongnongno wrote:
If you try the instruction instead of babbling you would be able to verify much more than if I posted something that could be faked. ..

Why would anyone bother to try a procedure that you said from the outset that you could not get to work.

Rongnongno wrote:
... I am in the process of creating actions to create masks that will use the zone system instead of the 'regular' mask creating actions ... I have basically discarded the mask* Level** option for being too wide and basically crap ... I get the feeling that I am digging my own grave here ... I am unable to find the range of luminosity needed for each zone. I have tried three different charts ... If you have those, can you post them? ... Here is how to try: ...

Nobody is really interested in following a "tutorial" from someone who openly admits that he does not know what he is doing.

I suggest that you get some training yourself from someone who does know how to use Photoshop. Learn how to use the product before you inflict your lack of knowledge and experience on others.

Then come back and post what you have learned how to apply successfully, with examples, in the proper forum - Post-Processing.

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Feb 8, 2016 08:51:55   #
tshift Loc: Overland Park, KS.
 
selmslie wrote:
Nobody is really interested in following a "tutorial" from someone who openly admits that he does not know what he is doing.

I suggest that you get some training yourself from someone who does know how to use Photoshop. Learn how to use the product before you inflict your lack of knowledge and experience on others.

Then come back and post what you have learned how to apply successfully, with examples, in the proper forum - Post-Processing.



:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Feb 8, 2016 09:53:41   #
TheDman Loc: USA
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Yes, they do. One does not become a race car driver by sitting behind a wheel but by learning every aspect of the car that is pertinent to driving. This includes everything as one needs to be attuned to every little vibration, noise, smell in order to instruct the mechanics as to the origin of the disturbance.



Oh really? So they're getting a PhD in chemistry so they can develop the precise rubber compounds needed to make the best tires? Becoming proficient in CAD-type software so they can 3d model the perfect intake manifold?

There's always a level of detail you simply don't need to go into to do your job, and you're going into it. Below is the Tony Kuyper actions panel. Any zone or combination of zones you can imagine, all a single click away. Yet you're sitting up at night wondering how you can isolate zones.



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Feb 8, 2016 10:02:26   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
all critics wrote:
.../... rants, whatever .../...

If you pay attention to the tutorial you would realize that in the simple zone I you have an incredible flexibility from creating a 'flat zone' using 255 instead of 0 then using 127 vs 0 or 255 you change the feathering from 100% to 50%. Then if you do want a more subdued effect you can lower the zone optimal 255 toward 0.

If instead of an apogee you want a 'plateau', you create a second point and adjust both according to your needs.

Meaning you are in total control of your mask and how it behaves within your capture.

To create the other zones? Easy, find the apogee value and how it should interact with the others if need.

You want a mask that includes 2 adjacent zones? 3? More? You can do it.

Try to find this flexibility in any canned plug-in.

So, yes, it is easy to critique, to put down whatever but in the end? The pie is on your collective face, not mine.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ah, I forgot, if you really want to get into it, you do not even need the channels at all and create your mask directly.

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Feb 8, 2016 10:06:25   #
TheDman Loc: USA
 
Rongnongno wrote:

You want a mask that includes 2 adjacent zones? 3? More? You can do it.



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