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Am I the only one
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Jan 29, 2016 11:07:40   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
boberic wrote:
All the various makers brag about the number and configuration of their focus points. I find the both distracting and not at all helpful. As a result I use center spot focus as well as spot metering in my 7d. Am I the only and what,if anything , am I missing. I come from 4 or 5 decades of film with split image film focus screens, and spot metering both in camera and with light meters. Am I alone? (Please pardon the bad syntax- I'm to lazy to go back and correct them)



Like you, I use the center AF point alone much of the time. I'm using 7d, too, though I've done pretty much the same on other camera models... For me, this often is the most consistent and accurate way to focus the cameras. Combined with back button focusing and AI Servo (much of the time), it sort of put the responsibility on me to control exactly where the camera focuses, rather than leave it up to camera automation and some luck.

However, sometimes I do use other individual points, and occasionally the multi-point modes. Especially on 7D which offers several useful ones. Sometimes zone focus or expansion points are useful with very fast or erratically moving subjects, for example. I'll use spot focus fairly often too (high precision single point, using a smaller than usual point... but a little slower than regular single point). I can't recall the last time I used all points (fully auto selection).

Like you, I've used a lot of manual focus cameras over the years (well... decades actually) with various focus assist features, including split image rangefinders such as you described. To me single point and BBF feel a lot like the control I had over the manual focus cameras (but is faster and more accurate than I ever was).

Results are what really counts and when I'm in good form I find I get mostly usable focus shots, only lose a relatively small percentage of shots to missed focus (probably 2 or 3% tops... and probably half of those are my fault, not the camera's). The 7D has been an excellent camera, for AF performance.

It wasn't until about 2001 that I started using AF cameras: a pair of EOS-3. Those have 45 points, so I guess I jumped right into AF with lots of points. I usually dialed them down to 11 points, though, because that way EOS-3 can do active AF point-linked spot metering throughout the image area. That's a feature I wish Canon would put on more recent models but only 1D-series can do it... although, evaluative metering actually is pretty similar. (On a related note: I am not one of those people wishing that Canon would bring back the EOS-3's Eye Control AF... it just never worked very well for me with my 3s or other cameras I used that had it. I really tried using it for several months, but finally just turned it off and never used it again.)

AF performance is also closely tied to the lenses being used. Some are certainly better than others. Most of my lenses are USM, which tends to be the quickest and most accurate for still photos (STM may be better for videography). There are a few lenses that aren't fast, despite having USM (macro and ultra-large aperture portrait lenses, for example)... but on the whole USM lenses combined with a higher performance AF system such as 7D-series (which uses AF tech borrowed from 1D-series models... and even goes a bit beyond them with the current 7DII).

Using center point much of the time, there is some risk of making boring shots, with the subject centered too much of the time. However, using BBF allows me to use focus and recompose method (even with AI Servo, which isn't possible without it).

Also, shooting sports/action a lot, often I just don't have time to change AF points the way I'd like... So I've gotten in the habit of making some shots slightly looser, to allow off-center re-cropping later, in post-processing.

However, my metering methods are different than yours. I don't use spot metering all that often. Most of the time I use evaluative, because that also puts the emphasis on the active AF point, similar to AF-linked spot metering I mentioned above. Sure, in certain situations I'll use spot metering... or center weighted, or partial. But most of the time I just use evaluative or have the camera in manual mode and am not relying upon the metering system to any extent.

I've just ordered a pair of 7D Mark II, so will soon see what I think of the 65 point AF system, instead of the 19 points of the original 7D I've been using for about 5 years (alongside a 5DII, with it's 9/15 point AF system that's nowhere near as fast as the 7D's and some other 9 point cameras I've used).

I do think it's getting a bit silly... 150 AF points in Nikon's D500? Heck, even 65, 61 or 45 seems like overkill. I would rather that the AF array be spread more broadly around the image area though... not so concentrated in the center. I'd like to have the option to set up a focus point almost anywhere in the frame (I guess the new Live View focus mode can make that possible and is more practical to use in it's latest form).

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Jan 29, 2016 11:11:24   #
bobmcculloch Loc: NYC, NY
 
boberic wrote:
All the various makers brag about the number and configuration of their focus points. I find the both distracting and not at all helpful. As a result I use center spot focus as well as spot metering in my 7d. Am I the only and what,if anything , am I missing. I come from 4 or 5 decades of film with split image film focus screens, and spot metering both in camera and with light meters. Am I alone? (Please pardon the bad syntax- I'm to lazy to go back and correct them)


My cameras are on center spot, most of the time I don't have time to play with changing the focus point, if I have time I half press and reframe, I do on occasion auto focus and switch to manual to hold the focus, Bob.

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Jan 29, 2016 11:15:16   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
boberic wrote:
All the various makers brag about the number and configuration of their focus points. I find the both distracting and not at all helpful. As a result I use center spot focus as well as spot metering in my 7d. Am I the only and what,if anything , am I missing. I come from 4 or 5 decades of film with split image film focus screens, and spot metering both in camera and with light meters. Am I alone? (Please pardon the bad syntax- I'm to lazy to go back and correct them)


I tend to keep things simple. The split focusing screen works well on my F and my 500C. Marketing gurus want to make things seem attractive for sales purposes. Sure the things work, but are they really needed to produce a good sharp image? I tend to think the simple approach works. It has for years.
--Bob

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Jan 29, 2016 12:00:42   #
SharpShooter Loc: NorCal
 
boberic wrote:
That's fine. So many at UHH extoll the virtues of manual, do they mean full manual (manual focus). Isn't that kinda the "good old days". Control everything- don't let the camera control the settings. All us old film guys did exactly that, there was no other way.


Boberic, everybody here is an "old" film guy!
That doesn't mean you have to be stuck in the past.
It all depends on what you shoot and how you choose to shoot it.
If all you shoot is landscape at distances beyond the lenses infinity point, and most use as wide a lens as they can get their hands on so infinity might be anything from 12 inches on!! It would be pretty darned hard to screw that up.
But there are those that shoot very difficult to focus subjects, and even the most sophisticated pro cameras can't get the focus right much of the time, on any mode!!
So just like the manual shooting debate, there are situations where using only one type of method will miss a lot of shots and ones chances will improve with a thorough working knowledge of which focus system in the camera may greatly improve ones chances of landing a sharply focused shot!
At least that's been my personal observation and I'm sticking with it!!! ;-)
SS

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Jan 29, 2016 12:12:22   #
LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field
 
boberic wrote:
That's fine. So many at UHH extoll the virtues of manual, do they mean full manual (manual focus). Isn't that kinda the "good old days". Control everything- don't let the camera control the settings. All us old film guys did exactly that, there was no other way.


It's all situational for me. Even when I used a total manual camera (no "P", "A", or "S" mode and certainly no "landscape", et al...) my starting point was often the aperture setting, so it was a natural choice for me to shoot "A Priority" when this feature first showed up. I still have a rangefinder where I have to do everything, including setting focus point. I don't run that much film through it these days. This rangefinder is my definition of an "all manual" camera; it's not a choice-- that's all it will do.

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Jan 29, 2016 13:19:42   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
boberic wrote:
All the various makers brag about the number and configuration of their focus points. I find the both distracting and not at all helpful. As a result I use center spot focus as well as spot metering in my 7d. Am I the only and what,if anything , am I missing. I come from 4 or 5 decades of film with split image film focus screens, and spot metering both in camera and with light meters. Am I alone? (Please pardon the bad syntax- I'm to lazy to go back and correct them)


No, your not alone. And are you missing something? Not necessarily. Are your images to your satisfaction? If they are, you are doing just fine. I will encourage you to learn the other focusing modes for times when the situation calls for using a different focus/exposure than what you do now.

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Jan 29, 2016 13:21:34   #
Los-Angeles-Shooter Loc: Los Angeles
 
bdk wrote:
I change the focus point all the time, sometimes I want the whole scene but I want the focus on something to a side or top etc . Sometimes I just cant center what Im shooting....


Same with me. Typically with portraits I use a focal point to make it easy to focus on the eyes.

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Jan 29, 2016 18:09:10   #
RJ Loc: Montana
 
What a great question, who knew. This generated enough answers to compile a small booklet and with no wrong answers. Although we are all photographers to one degree or another we are all as diverse as the answers to your question. I usually lie in the shadows of this forum and try to learn because at my age the curve seems to grow and grow. Just wanted to say I appreciate all of you who participate in this site, thank-you.

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Jan 29, 2016 18:12:07   #
btbg
 
Kuzano wrote:
When you have been shooting film for 40 years, the natural or habit thing to do is focus and re-compose. It's far faster for me to do that than to change focus points with a choice of 754 focus points in the viewfinder.

Sorry but a huge number of focus points doesn't work as fast for me as what I have been doing since the sixties.

Old Dog-New Trick... Not likely going there.


Focus and recompose works fine on a landscape photo. Try to do that in sports photography. The extra focus points are a huge advantage. They allow the user to focus on one specific individual, who is not in the center of the frame.

Really helps on certain kinds of photos, especially with rapidly moving people or objects.

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Jan 29, 2016 18:44:39   #
Brian in Whitby Loc: Whitby, Ontario, Canada
 
boberic wrote:
All the various makers brag about the number and configuration of their focus points. I find the both distracting and not at all helpful. As a result I use center spot focus as well as spot metering in my 7d. Am I the only and what,if anything , am I missing. I come from 4 or 5 decades of film with split image film focus screens, and spot metering both in camera and with light meters. Am I alone? (Please pardon the bad syntax- I'm to lazy to go back and correct them)

I do thecsame or use manual focus.

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Jan 29, 2016 20:02:29   #
boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander
 
SharpShooter wrote:
Boberic, everybody here is an "old" film guy!
That doesn't mean you have to be stuck in the past.
It all depends on what you shoot and how you choose to shoot it.
If all you shoot is landscape at distances beyond the lenses infinity point, and most use as wide a lens as they can get their hands on so infinity might be anything from 12 inches on!! It would be pretty darned hard to screw that up.
But there are those that shoot very difficult to focus subjects, and even the most sophisticated pro cameras can't get the focus right much of the time, on any mode!!
So just like the manual shooting debate, there are situations where using only one type of method will miss a lot of shots and ones chances will improve with a thorough working knowledge of which focus system in the camera may greatly improve ones chances of landing a sharply focused shot!
At least that's been my personal observation and I'm sticking with it!!! ;-)
SS
Boberic, everybody here is an "old" film... (show quote)


Your first sentence brings up another interesting question. Is there any one here who has never used film? I think I will start a thread with that theme

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Jan 29, 2016 21:30:12   #
Madman Loc: Gulf Coast, Florida USA
 
I believe that circumstances determine the correct use of focus zones.

When I am shooting something in motion, a bird for example, I want a large enough focus area so that if the subject is not centered, it is still in focus.

On the other hand, if that bird is sitting amongst branches, I will reduce the focus to one spot to ignore things that would cause the camera to focus on something that is not my bird.

From my experience, Auto Focus locks onto what is closest to the camera, whether that item is the subject or not. Choosing where the camera looks, solves that problem.

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Jan 29, 2016 22:18:10   #
CathyAnn Loc: Apache Junction, AZ
 
boberic wrote:
Your first sentence brings up another interesting question. Is there any one here who has never used film? I think I will start a thread with that theme


The only film I've ever used is with the 110 camera and the Brownie, certainly no SLR. I'm finding this whole discussion fascinating. Reading through this, I look at my camera, turn it on and check out the focusing options. You guys are making me more aware of the possibilities. :thumbup:

eta: I've been using the BBF since I read a thread on UHH a month or so ago. It's easier for me to use than holding the shutter button down halfway and then recompose.

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Jan 29, 2016 23:13:29   #
SharpShooter Loc: NorCal
 
boberic wrote:
Your first sentence brings up another interesting question. Is there any one here who has never used film? I think I will start a thread with that theme


When you do, call them young skinny Chippendales......, because calling them fat old curmudgeons will have the Poeleese at your door arresting you!!! :lol:
SS

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Jan 30, 2016 01:19:50   #
Wmetcalf Loc: Rogersville, Mo
 
SharpShooter wrote:
Rook, we all shoot within the confines of the limits of our cameras, or our abilities. That has to be the lowest common denominator. MOST, people use the central point for a reason....., it's the ONLY cross point on most inexpensive or older cameras. So it's the only point that is reliable enough to lock good focus. AND, if you enable ALL the points, now it's a crap shoot, since many cameras will just lock to the area of highest contrast and focus there, but that may not be where YOU wanted the focus to be.
If you are focusing on whole body shots of people standing around, such as at a wedding on central point, that puts the head in the center and the feet at the bottom of the frame. So what's in the whole top half?? Nothing after you crop off 50% of your pixels!!
One of my cameras has tons of focus points and ALL are cross type. It also has focus point Auto Orientation. What's that? I can pick a point at the top off the frame in portrait orientation and put that point on people's eye, ensuring the eye is always in focus and at the top of the frame. But to shoot a wide group of people, I simply rotate the camera to landscape and my focus point automatically shifts to the same location in the frame but on landscape mode. That point is still at the top of my screen and on the eyes and I sometimes don't need to crop at all.
That same configuration works for me for sports, portraits, birds etc.
One learns not to fear a miss-focus because you are not on the sensitive center point all the time, since all the points are sensitive.
If you ever shoot with lenses using only 1" of DoF, Recomposing gets extremely critical really quick, if not impossible. Rook, I don't recall the last time my camera was on a tripod either, nor do I recall the last time I had my camera on central point either.
And if all you shoot are landscapes, any point will do, as usually everything is at infinity anyway.
When I first started I too used just central point, but today's cameras are WAY beyond that for those wishing to improve their photography by taking advantage of the new technologies!! ;-)
SS
Rook, we all shoot within the confines of the limi... (show quote)



:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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