anotherview Loc: California

Gobbledegook.

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

Gobbledegook.

Where do you think artistic leaning, capacities, and his/her well of creativity are retained? The side of the brain which has higher emotional expression and desires to produce something visually or aurally stunning - which is the female dominant side of the brain.

Dancers are dominantly women, gay men, and very few straight men. Symphony orchestras are dominantly women, some gays, and typically less straight men. Choirs, unless they are meant to be male choirs, are dominantly women with less than 1/3 of the choir being men. Yes, I'm aware choirs are arranged to have more female voices in the upper registers than men in lower registers, but hold open tryouts and see how many women show up and how many men show up. Professional home decorators who really know what they're doing in multi-million dollar homes are dominantly women, gay men, and rarely straight men.

Unless a field of endeavor has been "controlled" by men so that women can't succeed in it as easily, it's typical that women are at the very least equally creative, artistic, and capable of immediately thinking in terms of beauty or how to embellish current beauty to be even more stunning.

The list of artists from earlier in this thread were "known" as renowned male artists, selected by government leaders from a pool of "known" male artists to create their masterpieces, and women were seldom, if ever, considered worth of such work, or worth of much of anything of value actually, in those time periods.

Some church denominations still don't allow women to be preachers, lead services, or even make announcements in services although they are certainly capable - there are many women with theology degrees and nowhere to use them.

Yes, a photographer must develop his/her visual sense which is a male dominant trait. It is easier for men to develop visual sense because we are already accustomed to acting on visual stimulation more so than women.

Two newbie photographers put in the same identical Colorado mountain scene with identical cameras and lenses - one a woman and one a man. The newbie male will document the mountains and the sky behind, possibly compose to have some grass or trees in the foreground to set a visual norm for size, and worry about distractions like poles, fallen trees, etc. The newbie woman will search for wild flowers, colors, unusual old buildings, native animals, waterfalls, something cute or pretty, and other such things to embellish her mountain photos.

She has to learn more of what he is doing and he has to learn more of what she's doing. So they are both honing their artistic output through integration of two very different mindsets from two different parts of the brain.

anotherview Loc: California

Good morning. The Femi-Nazis might take exception to your description and promotion of females as inherently different from men in connection with the visual arts, including photography.

Your own statements appear to contradict your view:

(1) The side of the brain which has higher emotional expression and desires to produce something visually or aurally stunning - which is the female dominant side of the brain.

(2) Yes, a photographer must develop his/her visual sense which is a male dominant trait. It is easier for men to develop visual sense because we are already accustomed to acting on visual stimulation more so than women.

I do agree, however, that the roles females and males naturally fulfill in life will condition them to an experience different from each other. Your statement alludes to this conditioning: “[Men] are already accustomed to acting on visual stimulation more so than women.”

As to homosexuals inherently more capable than heterosexuals in some arts, this outcome may simply result from the acceptance of these ill people in these arts, by convention. The repugnance of heterosexuals toward homosexuality may in turn repel them from association with these arts involving so many homosexuals. Thus, the characterization of a leaning to particular arts by homosexuals becomes self-fulfilling for this filtering.

I know and associate with a female visual artist. When we discus this field, the terms that we use relate to it as gender neutral. I gain the sense that the function of the art dictates how one practices it, whether male or female. The art itself has no gender. Imposing one likely arises from a social or a historical development.

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

The quotes didn't seem to work correctly here ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1) and 2) don't really contradict each other. My wife and I are sitting in a doctor's office and there's an AC outlet on the wall. She will look at the flowered wallpaper pattern and color around it, see the wall plate as being a complimentary color that is pleasing, and that's it. She would only comment about it if the room was a pastel color and the wall plate is plain glossy black - completely out of character. I look at the wall plate color and how it matches up pretty well with the wall, and consider whether that color is available at Home Depot or if I think it was necessary to special order those through a design firm. I'll think about whether the plate is plastic or metal and I'll notice whether the plate is held on with a screw at the top and bottom or only a screw in the center. I'll think about how that plate may have cost 10X as much as one at Home Depot that is beige and could have done the job just as well. Two very different ways to see the same outlet wall plate.

I would hope that Femi-Nazis would be able to recognize that I'm not bashing them but instead I'm implying they have an easier time in the field of photography shooting something of beauty than men do yet we may have an easier time of striving for technical perfection. When both types of perception are applied by exercising both mindsets, then a technical perfect photo of something very beautiful is achieved - and enhanced by the photographic knowledge of the shooter - whether they are female or male.

My inclusion of homosexual men with women in fields of artistic endeavor assumes that homosexual men have a more feminine outlook and are perceiving things in a more female manner while not being "linked to" their male brain as heterosexual men are. This may be because of the way they were raised, the way they chose to perceive life, a weak male brain and strong female brain side from birth because of physiological reasons, or an intentional rejection of male traits they could exhibit and retaining only female traits from female role models. Hard to say.

Another area of life where there's a fine line of distinction possibly verifying what I'm discussing about male and female sides of the brain is hair dressers versus barbers. Hair dressers tend to be females or gay men who just love to creatively work with women's hair. Possibly a large percentage of female hairdressers are lesbian or bisexual too. I don't know about that. I've only known one. She was a bitch, was married 3 times, and had a couple lesbian relationships, so I wouldn't even try to figure her out. But she worked 10 hours a day on women's hair, enjoyed her job immensely, and made a lot of money at it with a dedicated clientele. Far fewer straight men work as hair dressers than gay men. Does this imply that straight men don't require a creative outlet as much as they require productivity at achieving something visually acceptable but not necessarily beautiful? Possibly.

In reverse from hair dressers, barbers are mostly straight men and not nearly as often gay. My brother-in-law operates 5 barber shops with 40 barbers and you wouldn't want to meet anybody any straighter than him - former hard partying cowboy and oil line worker who is addicted to hot Asian women.

And even more rarely are barbers women unless they're using their female "attributes" to attract and keep an eager loyal male clientele. I believe this is because hair dressing of women is creative and being a barber of men is providing a service that copies what the customer wants to see as a finished product - the style they've had for decades or a cut that's close to it.

I agree that in many or even most cases art has no gender. If the artists, whether male or female has learned their art making craft it shouldn't be evident unless they intentionally want it to be.

Even then the viewer can be fooled. I saw a spread on a young female photographer a couple years ago in a photo magazine (I don't remember her name). She shot "grunge industrial" with an assistant. It was typically the inside of an old closed down factory, shut down power plant, shuttered brick warehouse with the roof falling in, a sewer treatment plant with big empty sewer pipes, etc. where nobody was around. Sometimes they even broke into old properties illegally at night to not be caught. She carried some battery-powered strobes and diffusers, worked on getting the whole thing lit just like she wanted for hours, and created a very gritty, rusted-steel-oriented look where you'd expect greasy, dirty, sweaty, hard working men in hard hats and asbestos gloves.

But then she'd strip naked and she was pale white on the verge of Albino with no makeup on and just lipstick, and assume a unique pre-planned position in the midst of these surroundings and have the assistant push the shutter button. She was usually completely nude but sometimes kept her "industrial" lace up military-type boots on. So it ended up a big heavy industrial complexity that would be most like a man's composition but this small pale white flower of a subject stick in there somewhere which is a female insertion of sensuality, or sexuality I suppose. Her art exhibited no male or female brain dominance, and the art had no male or female gender to it either.

blackest Loc: Ireland

seriously , ill? What century do you think you're in. Why the need to slur? It is offensive and uncalled for. Your personal bias seems to show you have little understanding of what you are talking about.

Back in the day, when I had hair, I used to live with a fashion model and thats how I ended up getting my hair styled by james and paul two straight yorkshire men who worked as hair dressers to a client base that included the well known singer Paul Young.

The hair dresser Paul ended up moving to hollywood to work on celebs there. Trust me neither Paul or James were gay, although I remember Paul putting it on just for giggles. Both of those lads were very popular with the ladies and not just for styling their hair.

Being gay doesn't automatically mean artistically talented either, I remember one individual who thought he must be artistically talented due to his sexuality and was really bitchy and resentful because he wasn't.

So honestly stereotyping really doesn't work out in practice. Just as well really. I'd hate to think I can't be involved in artistic pursuits such as photography and music by virtue of my sexuality :) You certainly don't need to be effeminate to be able to capture beauty in its many forms.

anotherview Loc: California

Agree: "You certainly don't need to be effeminate to be able to capture beauty in its many forms."