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TTL Help!
Dec 10, 2015 11:29:18 #
gvarner
Loc: Central Oregon Coast
ajohnston3 wrote:
I just got my 1st TTL compatible flash unit (Neweer 750II) for my D7100. I went on-line and tried, without success to find a tutorial that would help me understand the way the flash works with the camera. (& visa-versa) & what adjustments I should make to the camera and the flash for a upcoming indoor large family gathering - dinner. (we are talking 50+ folks from 98 to -1!!!!) As a relative novice to this area of photography, I could really use some help!
Set the camera to Manual mode, 1/200, f4 or so, ISO at 400 for starters. This will handle 95% of your shots. TTL takes care of the exposure of the subject, shutter speed deals with the ambient light which is basically a non-issue indoors. The zoom feature on the flash changes according to the focal length of the lens, whether a zoom lens or fixed. It zooms the flash beam wider or narrower. Using Manual mode let's the TTL flash expose the subject while ignoring the ambient light. Using other camera exposure modes let's the camera determine exposure settings and then fire the flash as a fill light, not necessarily getting the subject exposure you want. With TTL and the camera in Manual mode you can also increase the ISO to increase the effective distance for the flash or stop the lens down to increase depth of field. There are other benefits to using Manual mode with a TTL flash, lots of good stuff on YouTube.
Dec 10, 2015 14:25:48 #
TTL is very helpful and Neil van Niekerk who is a recognized flash expert uses it most of the time. He blends fast lenses with increased ISO and bounce to add soft directional light. I just did a group shot with our family (8) adults and 5 grandchildren. It worked OK, some judgement errors (sun hitting my face & flash reflection in the back window) but that is how I learn. 50+ is a heck of a way to get your feet wet. Would you consider smaller groups and stitching the shots together (panorama)? Neil tweaks his camera settings in Manual but fine tunes with FEC. He also gels his flash with CTS (color temperature straw) full or half strength to compensate for incandescent lighting to prevent murky yellow flash shots. Any way you could take the shot or shots during daylight avoiding flash? I used on-camera SB700 no bounce, shot straight on but increased the ISO, matrix metering so the flash was back-lite/fill (a light touch).
ajohnston3 wrote:
I just got my 1st TTL compatible flash unit (Neweer 750II) for my D7100. I went on-line and tried, without success to find a tutorial that would help me understand the way the flash works with the camera. (& visa-versa) & what adjustments I should make to the camera and the flash for a upcoming indoor large family gathering - dinner. (we are talking 50+ folks from 98 to -1!!!!) As a relative novice to this area of photography, I could really use some help!
Dec 10, 2015 14:28:55 #
I attached the wrong photo. This is the shot I took as a newbie, just like you.
ABJanes wrote:
TTL is very helpful and Neil van Niekerk who is a ... (show quote)
Dec 10, 2015 17:05:52 #
amfoto1
Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
Didn't the flash come with an instruction manual? That's where I'd start!
That appears to be a pretty standard TTL dedicated flash.... which means that in the TTL mode (or whatever Nikon calls it... The Canon I use call it ETTL) it will automatically zoom to match the focal length between about 24mm and 105mm, depending upon what lens is on the camera and, if it's a zoom, the focal length setting of the lens. There also appears to be a wide angle diffuser panel that can be pulled out and put in place to be able to use the flash with... probably... up to 16 or 17mmm wide lenses.
It gives a GN of 58 (in meters, at ISO 100 and 105mm setting... which is a bit of a cheat because GN are usually calculated with a 50mm lens, though more and more use the "tele" zoom setting). This equates to a reach of about 180 feet.
All this should be displayed on the back of the flash, on its LCD screen. It should show a usable range with any particular ISO, focal length, aperture and shutter speed set.
With Canon ETTL flash, if you leave the camera in any of the auto exposure modes (aperture priority, shutter priority or program), it will automatically revert to FILL flash mode... where the camera sets itself according to the available, ambient light and the flash is fired -1.7 stops lower output, so that it merely fills shadows a bit.
To get FULL flash with Canon, you simply put the camera into manual exposure mode with the flash in ETTL. This causes the camera to ignore the ambient light conditions and fire the flash as if it were the only light source. In effect, manual with ETTL flash is another form of auto exposure.
With FULL flash, you can adjust the ISO, aperture and shutter speed to make the background go completely black, to retain some of the ambient light, or even balance it so that most ambient light remains in the image. It's up to you.
In either FULL or FILL, on my Canon you can increase or decrease the flash output to your personal taste, using a dial on the back of the flash or Flash Exposure Compensation settings on the camera.
Pretty simple, really. I don't know if Nikon are exactly the same or as easy to use. But I don't imagine they are very different.
With flash, your shutter speed is largely meaningless, so long as it's no more than the camera's flash sync speed (probably 1/200 or 1/250). Slower shutter speeds can be used because the flash itself acts sort of like a shutter at about 1/720 or faster. You do have to watch that flash with a lot of ambient light can cause ghosting effects, especially with moving subjects.
Once you go above the camera's flash sync shutter speed, you have to use High Speed Sync mode on the flash, which will allow any shutter speed be used. So, why not use that all the time? Well, it shortens the duration of the flash a lot and seriously limits the flash's reach. It also cannot be used in conjunction with some other functions, such as Second Curtain Sync.
I recommend trying to avoid tilting the flash head up for bounce, if at all possible. This is for several reasons. One, it will probably defeat the flash setting itself for different focal lengths... that will need to be done manually. Also, bounce wastes a lot of the flash's power by greatly increasing the distance light has to travel... light falls off exponentially with distance... and there is always some more lost when it's absorbed by the bounce surface. All that wasted light might cause under-exposure problems in some cases... but it also will always force the flash to fire more fully and that in turn makes it much slower recycling for the next shot. Plus, the camera will probably be automatically set to a flash white balance (probably around 5800 to 6000K), but bounced light will be heavily influenced by whatever the color of the bounce surface. If you much bounce, plan to use a Custom White balance.
In other words, bouncing flash introduces a whole bunch of additional variables. If you watch most pro event photographers, such as you might hire to shoot your family gathering, the vast majority of them use direct flash all the time. Very few will bounce a flash.
So, try using direct flash as much as possible. This can be made "nicer" by mounting the flash on a bracket that moves it off to the side and higher up... reducing both redeye problems and pushing any shadows down behind your subject. There are a wide variety of flash brackets available and a an off-camera shoe cord will be needed to link the flash to the hot shoe of the camera. (Most event photographers use a flash bracket like this.)
If that's not enough for your tastes, try diffusing direct flash. The small wide angle panel on the flash might be adequate for this... Or there are on-flash soft boxes that can work, as well as other light modifiers. With soft boxes, for the softest light effects get the largest that's practical to handhold.
But, basically, to get the best out of the flash, I recommend you learn to use it directly and not bounce it.
That appears to be a pretty standard TTL dedicated flash.... which means that in the TTL mode (or whatever Nikon calls it... The Canon I use call it ETTL) it will automatically zoom to match the focal length between about 24mm and 105mm, depending upon what lens is on the camera and, if it's a zoom, the focal length setting of the lens. There also appears to be a wide angle diffuser panel that can be pulled out and put in place to be able to use the flash with... probably... up to 16 or 17mmm wide lenses.
It gives a GN of 58 (in meters, at ISO 100 and 105mm setting... which is a bit of a cheat because GN are usually calculated with a 50mm lens, though more and more use the "tele" zoom setting). This equates to a reach of about 180 feet.
All this should be displayed on the back of the flash, on its LCD screen. It should show a usable range with any particular ISO, focal length, aperture and shutter speed set.
With Canon ETTL flash, if you leave the camera in any of the auto exposure modes (aperture priority, shutter priority or program), it will automatically revert to FILL flash mode... where the camera sets itself according to the available, ambient light and the flash is fired -1.7 stops lower output, so that it merely fills shadows a bit.
To get FULL flash with Canon, you simply put the camera into manual exposure mode with the flash in ETTL. This causes the camera to ignore the ambient light conditions and fire the flash as if it were the only light source. In effect, manual with ETTL flash is another form of auto exposure.
With FULL flash, you can adjust the ISO, aperture and shutter speed to make the background go completely black, to retain some of the ambient light, or even balance it so that most ambient light remains in the image. It's up to you.
In either FULL or FILL, on my Canon you can increase or decrease the flash output to your personal taste, using a dial on the back of the flash or Flash Exposure Compensation settings on the camera.
Pretty simple, really. I don't know if Nikon are exactly the same or as easy to use. But I don't imagine they are very different.
With flash, your shutter speed is largely meaningless, so long as it's no more than the camera's flash sync speed (probably 1/200 or 1/250). Slower shutter speeds can be used because the flash itself acts sort of like a shutter at about 1/720 or faster. You do have to watch that flash with a lot of ambient light can cause ghosting effects, especially with moving subjects.
Once you go above the camera's flash sync shutter speed, you have to use High Speed Sync mode on the flash, which will allow any shutter speed be used. So, why not use that all the time? Well, it shortens the duration of the flash a lot and seriously limits the flash's reach. It also cannot be used in conjunction with some other functions, such as Second Curtain Sync.
I recommend trying to avoid tilting the flash head up for bounce, if at all possible. This is for several reasons. One, it will probably defeat the flash setting itself for different focal lengths... that will need to be done manually. Also, bounce wastes a lot of the flash's power by greatly increasing the distance light has to travel... light falls off exponentially with distance... and there is always some more lost when it's absorbed by the bounce surface. All that wasted light might cause under-exposure problems in some cases... but it also will always force the flash to fire more fully and that in turn makes it much slower recycling for the next shot. Plus, the camera will probably be automatically set to a flash white balance (probably around 5800 to 6000K), but bounced light will be heavily influenced by whatever the color of the bounce surface. If you much bounce, plan to use a Custom White balance.
In other words, bouncing flash introduces a whole bunch of additional variables. If you watch most pro event photographers, such as you might hire to shoot your family gathering, the vast majority of them use direct flash all the time. Very few will bounce a flash.
So, try using direct flash as much as possible. This can be made "nicer" by mounting the flash on a bracket that moves it off to the side and higher up... reducing both redeye problems and pushing any shadows down behind your subject. There are a wide variety of flash brackets available and a an off-camera shoe cord will be needed to link the flash to the hot shoe of the camera. (Most event photographers use a flash bracket like this.)
If that's not enough for your tastes, try diffusing direct flash. The small wide angle panel on the flash might be adequate for this... Or there are on-flash soft boxes that can work, as well as other light modifiers. With soft boxes, for the softest light effects get the largest that's practical to handhold.
But, basically, to get the best out of the flash, I recommend you learn to use it directly and not bounce it.
Dec 10, 2015 17:26:27 #
sueyeisert wrote:
Get a copy of Neil Van Niekerk's book- on camera flash.
Just checked out his web site..... the guy knows his stuff. looks like his books are prefered in CC classes & such....
Dec 10, 2015 17:27:44 #
avemal wrote:
Appreciated.... Unfortunately just a unboxing vid.....
Dec 10, 2015 17:29:10 #
dcampbell52 wrote:
I would look at The Strobist site which is a site for flash photography. http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/
They have excellent how-too articles and etc for flash with photography.
They have excellent how-too articles and etc for flash with photography.
This looks VERY promising..... Bookmarked!
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Dec 10, 2015 17:32:58 #
Tangent.com is his website and he offers many free tips & has a free newsletter as well.
ajohnston3 wrote:
Just checked out his web site..... the guy knows his stuff. looks like his books are prefered in CC classes & such....
Dec 10, 2015 17:34:46 #
bweber wrote:
I highly recommend the "Speedsters Handbook" by Syl Arena for anyone using speed lights.
I bookmarked his blog (PixSylated) for future reference. (is it my imagination or does he kind of look like Danny Bonaduce after a hard night out...)
Dec 10, 2015 17:35:40 #
So two things I haven't seen mentioned yet that might matter:
1. The metering mode affects the iTTL flash output. If you use matrix metering the camera will consider the background when computing the exposure and the flash power. If you use spot metering mode the flash will be adjusted only for the metered area.
2. Your camera has flash compensation in addition to exposure compensation. On Nikons they add to affect the flash output. Only exposure compensation affects the background exposure.
Keep in mind that other than item 2 above the background exposure and flash exposure are independent. You can set the background exposure to be what you want without affecting the iTTL flash exposure. The camera will consider what you set for ISO and f-stop when adjusting the flash power. Shutter speed has no impact on the amount of flash: the flash is much faster than the shutter.
I bought my wife a Neewer flash for her D5300. She hasn't used it much but found it pretty easy to use. The controls on the flash are pretty clear. It is quite a bit more powerful than my Nikon SB700. The manual sucks.
1. The metering mode affects the iTTL flash output. If you use matrix metering the camera will consider the background when computing the exposure and the flash power. If you use spot metering mode the flash will be adjusted only for the metered area.
2. Your camera has flash compensation in addition to exposure compensation. On Nikons they add to affect the flash output. Only exposure compensation affects the background exposure.
Keep in mind that other than item 2 above the background exposure and flash exposure are independent. You can set the background exposure to be what you want without affecting the iTTL flash exposure. The camera will consider what you set for ISO and f-stop when adjusting the flash power. Shutter speed has no impact on the amount of flash: the flash is much faster than the shutter.
I bought my wife a Neewer flash for her D5300. She hasn't used it much but found it pretty easy to use. The controls on the flash are pretty clear. It is quite a bit more powerful than my Nikon SB700. The manual sucks.
Dec 10, 2015 17:37:46 #
MtnMan wrote:
A thought in case your indoor venue supports it. Taking an image of that many people from ground level is impossible. A photographer recently shot our high school reunion group of over 100 from the second floor balcony of the motel. Worked great as all faces visible with no moving people around.
A step ladder might also do the job.
A step ladder might also do the job.
Good tip.... Had not thought about it but a group shot might be asked for.... It's a farm - so lots of possibilities....
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Dec 10, 2015 17:39:22 #
amfoto1 wrote:
.......
Once you go above the camera's flash sync shutter speed, you have to use High Speed Sync mode on the flash, which will allow any shutter speed be used. So, why not use that all the time? Well, it shortens the duration of the flash a lot and seriously limits the flash's reach. .
Once you go above the camera's flash sync shutter speed, you have to use High Speed Sync mode on the flash, which will allow any shutter speed be used. So, why not use that all the time? Well, it shortens the duration of the flash a lot and seriously limits the flash's reach. .
Kind of advanced for a beginner, but the High Speed Sync mode only kicks in above the standard sync setting.
Below that, the flash operates normally.
I have my Nikons set up for HSS all the time.
I also use bounce as much as possible, but I have been at this for 40 years and know when it will work and when to use direct with some sort of modifier. As you said, I agree with using direct to start.
Dec 10, 2015 17:50:17 #
Armadillo wrote:
ajohnston3,
The first thing to know is if the flash you received is an ETTL flash.
~~~~~~Edit~~~~~
In the meantime go back to the Neewer website and look for links indicating model user manuals. These may be available only as a download PDF file. Michael G
The first thing to know is if the flash you received is an ETTL flash.
~~~~~~Edit~~~~~
In the meantime go back to the Neewer website and look for links indicating model user manuals. These may be available only as a download PDF file. Michael G
Good suggestion, Michael.... will do. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.... iTTL is Nikon & ETTL is Cannon? Unfortunately the manual is typical gibberish. (no online PDF ava.) I wish they would find someone who speaks English fluently to translate these things!
Dec 10, 2015 17:57:56 #
gvarner wrote:
Set the camera to Manual mode, 1/200, f4 or so, ISO at 400 for starters. This will handle 95% of your shots.
~~~~~~~~~~~edit~~~~~~~~
There are other benefits to using Manual mode with a TTL flash, lots of good stuff on YouTube.
~~~~~~~~~~~edit~~~~~~~~
There are other benefits to using Manual mode with a TTL flash, lots of good stuff on YouTube.
Thanks for the info... I'll do some test shots in 'M' tonight.... I agree about Youtube but it's getting harder to find the 'good' stuff. (seems like everyone with his 1st DSLR suddenly becomes an expert :))
Dec 10, 2015 18:01:21 #
ABJanes wrote:
I attached the wrong photo. This is the shot I took as a newbie, just like you.
Rookie or not, that's a fine looking group, ABJanes!
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