jaysnave Loc: Central Ohio

We discuss a lot about lighting including sunset and golden hour shots. This is pretty cool! It will be on my experiment list once I am able.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh5-t548Gpc

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

I edited the address to make it active.

Fairly sure that posts with links get moved by the moderator (me), and I won't move topics like this that I think we can use.

If it gets moved.......just know it wasn't me. :-)

fotodon Loc: Oberlin, OH

Good video. Nothing new. Maybe a little over the top for a wedding shoot, but not unusual for todays wedding tutorials. Still, something to think about. I am not sure it is an easy thing to do. Assistant grabbing a Profoto B1 with associated power supply and walking 300 ft. to light up a wide angle shot or two is not in the cards for most of us.

However, on several occasions I have used a gold reflector held by a volunteer and lit with an off camera flash to achieve a nice warm sweet light effect on a tight shot of the subject. The basics are: Reflector held high at 90 to 120 deg from camera on desired side of subject. Flash aimed at reflector @ 100% as close as possible to reflector. If reflector is not golden enough for desired results just add a gel to the flash Add fill flash as required. Instant setting sun.

I even have recreated a sunset silhouette shot this way. That was back in the early 70s with a great big piece of round foam core and a yellow 500 watt spot light and very long extension cord. Not bad results with lots of darkroom work on the print but I wouldn't want to do that again. That was back when I thought I wanted to be a commercial photographer and wanted to prove that I could create images that didn't really exist naturally. Thankfully, I finally figured out that photography was more about capturing moments as they really exist.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

I have mixed emotions. On one hand, I agree that many tutorials go way over the top, but.... I'm guessing that SOMEONE IS doing those things, and if we want to become the pinnacles of the wedding photography world, instead of one of the masses, maybe we should all watch things like this, and figure out our own way of making it work with what we have. Just like your film experiment with foamcore.

I am all for capturing the moment as it happened as well, but I can tell you that with the advent of the internet, brides are seeing and expecting things that they just didn't even dream of 30 years ago.

I'm not going to rush out and buy the prophoto kit, but (That's a BIG BUT) hopefully, next year, I will be able to get a Paul C Buff Vagabond Mini. It weighs hardly anything, and can power my white lightning, so I can accomplish the same thing, except only spending about $300(ish) instead of $1400.

I've mentioned on other posts, because of all you folks in our section, my goal is to up my game considerably. I'd rather do one out of this world wedding, than do 20 "so so" weddings. I'm not necessarily talking about the couple, I'm talking about pulling out all the stops, and completely blowing away EVERYONE'S expectations. To do that, I'm just eating up everything I learn here, as well as youtube videos, actually getting out and practicing :shock:, and moving on to the next level.

Who knows, maybe all of us (if we stick together) can be the next round of people that others want to emulate.

At least, that's my hope for all of us. :thumbup:

greg vescuso Loc: Ozark,Mo.

I bought the vagabond mini and I find myself using my Einstein outside more than my speed lights . If I was doing photography as a career I would spend the $260 on the vagabond, because when you need that power it's just there waiting for you. As a side note Think I might try a shoot like this maybe I will get a couple models together to learn how to do this it would be a good thing to have in your arsenal when you need it.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

I can't really say that photography is my "career" but I've been tied to photography, working in darkrooms, both my own, and as my day job, shooting weddings and portraits for over 30 years. All that being said, it hasn't been my primary source of income for a very long time.

I'm glad to hear that you like the Vagabond system. I would love to hear the good, bad, and ugly of it all from someone who's actually used it.

Thanks
bk

jaysnave Loc: Central Ohio

With you all the way Bob regarding becoming a photographer that can do things the shoot and burn crowd can not. FYI, I have the mini. It works well but Greg is right. I would say you need 5 to 10 sec. To refresh. However, my photography will be on hold to a while. The back surgery went well, but no bending, twisting, or lifting for at least 3 months.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

I have been using multiple and off-camera flash for many years- just about from day-1 in my wedding photography experience, but surprisingly enough, except for action shots in harsh sunlight, I prefer, whenever possible, the use of reflectors rather than flash. My reflector technique is very applicable to “golden hour” shots because when the sun is at a very low angle of incidence it is very easy to pick up the sunlight and redirect it at the subject thereby creating a main light that is comparable with the actual sunlight as to color temperature. In terms of portrait lighting effects and forms, I can see exactly what I am getting as I am shooting. Even if a portable electronic flash system were in use, it would be doubtful if one could see the exact effect of the modeling lights in a bright sunlit environment. There are no worries about over-filling and drowning out the effect of the natural light. Although I have used filtered flash for fill and off camera lighting in out-of-door situations but I still prefer the reflector method.

I should admit at this point in my advice, that I always work with 2 assistants at all my wedding coverages so I am working at advantage whether I opt for reflectors or flash on both indoor and outdoor situations. Doing this kind of lighting single-handily with the use of light stands could be precarious, especially in breezy conditions.

Hauling around “studio type” lighting gear to outdoor locations can be difficult and time-consuming, especially if there is a small window of opportunity to get all the formal and group shots done during a tight wedding schedule. I can carry 2 or 3 reflectors, at least, one silver and one gold model and even a gobo for subtractive lighting and the entire system's weight, mobility, and speed of use is of no consequence. Finite lighting techniques such as feathering are easy to accomplish, again, because you can see exactly what your are doing as to beam control, lighting pattern and ratio.
In my own personal style of shooting, I stay away from “simulating” weather conditions. The is nothing wrong with doing that, per se, however, my own preference is to find the charm and mood even in overcast or rainy conditions, and include that in my wedding stories.
I am not going to pose a wedding couple or a group in a rain storm or even a drizzle, but I might photograph the bride or a couple looking out of a window with visible raindrops or use overcast or cloudy-bright existing light to retain the mood of the day. This, of course, is a matter of your taste and shooting style. Oh- I live in Canada- we get lots of snow in the Winter! That can be very picturesque in the wedding album but when it gets down to sub-freezing temperatures-well, how do you spell hypothermia? OK, reflectors are still better because the “batteries” won't freeze up!

Equipment and budget wise- I do enjoy all kinds of online tutorials and there is much to be learned from them and even the lame ones can be rather entertaining. I do however become a bit suspicious when the are sponsored by the equipment manufacturers, distributors or retailers. There is nothing basically wrong with that and it good for us to familiarize ourselves with what is currently on the market and what applications this gear is especially compatible with and suited for. In terms of flash gear, many of the applications, suggested in so many of the tutorials, can be successfully performed with a wide range of equipment available from many makers and sources. In some cases, some of the best and premium priced flash equipment is too big, heavy and too powerful to perform the finite duties that are required- simply stated, overkill! I have seen some great off-camera and fill light done with simple speed-lights or home made reflectors made of Foam-Cor and aluminum foil. I do, admittedly, prefer the nice spring loaded models in that the are more portable, easy to transport and fast working.

Of course, especially in professional wedding photography, we need reliable, well-built equipment that will stand up during long duty cycles and in somewhat rough continual day to day usage. There is still some gear on the market that is simply not built for professional usage. Some of this stuff can overheat, present shock hazards and/or just unceremoniously drop dead at the most inopportune times like during a wedding coverage. All equipment should be well maintained and repaired in a timely fashion if any oncoming malfunction is suspected.

I can only recommend equipment brands that I have personally used. In my commercial studio, I use mostly Speedotron lighting. For portraits and weddings, I use Photogenic and Lumadyne gear. I have used some of this stuff for over 30 years with no major issues- it all “takes a lickin' and keeps on ticken'”! I have not used the Buff flash gear myself, but I have recommended it to many of my students, trainees, and colleagues based on my experience in my old repair and modification side business. I am sure there are many other brands that will do a great job for y'all based on their reputation in the trade. OH!- almost forgot- I do have the Buff umbrellas and softboxes- they set up quickly easily and are well made- very strong frames and fabrics! Good value and prices too!

Last year, I covered a “theme” wedding. The bride restored here mom's wedding gown and everyone in the bridal party dressed in the 70s and 80s kinda period formal-ware. They wanted the warm and nostalgic look- all reflector work on the formals and groups.

Hope this helps!

Ed

Attached file:
(Download)

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Here's the picture!

Could not locate file so I scanned it from a print- QUALITY :cry:
nut just check out the lighting!

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

I still have my speedotron brown system from the 70's. Other than the occasional bulb replacement (and it's been YEARS since I had to do that) I agree, it's bulletproof, and can be had fairly inexpensively on auction sites. It's also a great way to learn. My daughter now uses it as her primary light set up. I moved to Paul C. Buff lights several years ago with the white lightnings. I've had people suggest that the Einsteins would work just as well, and are lighter. I just can't see getting rid of perfectly good equipment.

I currently use multiple speedlights in a softbox for location shoots, but even 3 speedlights won't give me as much power as one white lightning. That's why I want the vagabond. There is a certain look that you can get when overpowering the sun, that I just can't get with reflectors or even the speedlights.

It all boils down to personal style, and how much lugging around of equipment you are willing and able to do.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

BK! Yes!

I have the black line Speedotrons, and you are right- they are built like brick outhouses.

You also have a good point about electronic flash usage. I prefer to use reflectors in many cases but if I want to have total control over subject to background ratios, I will bring out the flash gear.

I always have my Lumadyne units with me, they are battery operated, some of the heads have modeling lights and the are indeed powerful enough to overpower the natural light when that is required. I have some special heads where I can attenuate the power output to as little as 6 watt-seconds for just a wink of light that is especially good for fill usage with window light at wider apertures.

For indoor formals, when there is enough planned time to work without rushing, I set up my "portable studio" which consists of softboxes, reflectors, and even a portable background for the closeups and 3/4 length views. In a hitch, I can also employ my Lumadynes for indoor portraits and groups- the modeling lamps sure help!

I don't mind lugging around lots of gear as long as the is enough time for setup and take-down and the additional weight and work don't slow me down too much. I thank goodness for my crew- they do all the lugging.

I have even brought my Speedotrons also to light up big venues. I don't think I will ever sell those Speedos- when I retire I can give away my barbells and use my power packs for workouts!

Regards, Ed






:D

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

ED,

I was reading interestingly until I read you have 2 assistance ......... ah, most of us do not so so much in not applicable though I love the picture.

Heck, I'm looking for someone to hold the off-camera flash most of the time and in some cases I have someone hold a reflector over the subject to block the sun while I hold a camera in one hand and a off-camera flash on a monopod in the other :shock:

There is another way to get golden hour results when there is no golden hour lighting available (after the golden hour). Use a 70-200, snap shallow and use a off camera speedlight 100+ feet behind the subject. Set the speed light to full power, add the correct gel for golden hour, use the speed light in wide pattern. Set your exposure to the faces and fire away, make adjustments as needed. The speed light becomes the artificial sun, the gel gives the golden hour and the shallow DOF blurs the background so you can tell it's a speed light. Shot the picture a bit hot to blow out the background just a bit. It gives you today's look that so many Brides are looking for.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

:thumbup: You got that right. The white lightning heads are a tad heavy, but once you get used to moving that power pack (anchor) around a few times, the White Lightnings feel like feathers. My business partner has an even lighter set (can't think of the name right now), but there's something about an all metal body, instead of the plastic stuff that gives you a sense of security.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

My assistant thing had its beginning early in my career when I was the rookie at the studio I worked in. Among my janitorial, gofer, and doing “everything the older guys did not want to do” duties was being the guy who held that second light at weddings. That's when I began learning the basics of good lighting on the fly. As I progressed, I was given many other jobs at weddings; helping with details like draping gowns and trains, adjusting veils, getting people together for group shots, and starting as a second shooter. I realized, way back then, that the wedding photographer's job can be made easier, more efficient, faster and more creatively effective if he or she did not have to do everything single-handily and unilaterally, kinda running around the wedding venue like the proverbial “one-armed wallpaper hanger”.

Don't forget, back in the day, we toted around heavy 4x5 press cameras, cases full of film holders and flash units that weighed 12 pounds. Even in the medium format era, those cameras weighed as much as bricks.

Later on in years, at the studio, when our volume increased and I was promoted to “chief photographer”! That was nice but I was younger than most of my shooters and they took pleasure ribbing me- they called me “chief usher of the flusher”! Well- I did start off as the janitor! Part of my job as “chief” was training the new guys so FREE assistants were anxious to get started and were in plentiful supply, so I took two of them on each assignment and broke them it in the same way in which I was trained.

When I when out on my own and started my own studio, I continued to train my shooters in the same manner, paid them as assistants and worked the additional costs into my price schedule. Some of my present assistants come form other jobs in photography but don't want the stress and responsibility of being the primary shooter but they like assisting. Some of my people have been with me for years and we work smoothly and efficiently as a team. Being able to move light and reflectors around in a speedy and accurate manner really improves the quality of out finished product. Even with three of us on the job, we never get in the way or become obtrusive because each of us know exactly what to do and how to do it in a multitude of situations.

Besides, at 71 years of age, I ain't gonna be out there with a carload of gear, all by myself. I oftentimes joke that if I were to drop dead right I the middle of an assignment, my well-trained crew can just haul me out to the car and take of the shoot!

As long as I am in any kind of shape and can move fast enough, I will keep on shooting weddings. At the end of each wedding season, I promise myself that I am gonna walk down the aisle backward, with camera in hand, for the last time but when a few referral clients call up, things start all over again!

Ed

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

The good old days! I worked for a guy who was a "owner/operator" that didn't really have a staff like you describe, there was no formal set up, but the rest of the stuff sounds about the same.

I still remember walking in, and asking for a "job." Told him that I had my own darkroom since middle school, was the lead photographer for the school paper, and yearbook, etc. He told me at first that he didn't have employees.

I started going, and hanging out at the studio, just to see if I could learn anything. He handed me a broom.

My first "jobs" at a wedding were just lugging gear, and loading the cameras with film, putting Vaseline on filters (and cleaning them later), etc. I didn't get to actually touch a camera for probably 6 months.

I met his daughter later, strictly by accident, and had no idea at first who she was. I ended up marrying her. How's that for "forcing the old man to keep me around?"

I did end up running that studio for a while, but went to college, and have pursued other "career" paths, but have always kept the photography (especially wedding photography) as a part of my "side job life."

I do sometimes wonder what life would be like if I would have just stayed full time in photography? I do know that even then, making enough to pay the overhead costs were difficult when there was a freestanding studio.