joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois

Many say the crop sensor cameras are better than full frame for telephoto (wildlife) work. That may be true with some cameras but in my opinion that notion is no longer valid.

I like to shoot birds which requires long lenses and cropping to be effective.

I was using a D7100 when I purchased a D800E. Some experts claimed the D7100 was the best in class APS-C camera at the time. It definitely is a fine camera.

After awhile I noticed that the D800E images looked better (to me) even after cropping severely. Then the D810 was released. So long good buddy D7100 (sold).

I know many of you think its just one person's opinion. After all the "Experts" say crop sensor provide more resolution. I say maybe NOT.

The data presented here is from Senscore.org. Dxomark shows similar results if you look at the detail.

Look at the differences in each category, especially the resolving power. The full frames are much better.

D7200


D810


Canon 7D II


Canon 5DS R

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

I've seen the same thing in camera comparison photos. You can compare images on this site.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois

Thanks Jerry. I've been using that site for quite awhile.

rjaywallace Loc: Wisconsin

It is unfortunate that www.senscore.org and www.lenscore.org do not choose to include cameras/lenses from Olympus and Panasonic.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

I have a 6D and a 7DII, I prefer the IQ of the 6D by a long shot. If they bring out a FF (6DII?) with a good AF for action/BIF I will be tempted to trade both for the new camera. Yes, I know about the 5D series, can't afford it, or the 1Dx.

joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois

Thanks for looking and the comments.

steveo52 Loc: Rhode Island and Ocala Florida

I'm curious and still learning. What made you conclude the 6d IQ is better than the 7dII? I downloaded the first photo( lady holding bouquet) on the Imagining Resource site at least by that photo comparison using the 6d and 7dII tool the 7dII looks better. You have both cameras so you are a better judge, but if I were trying to make a decision based on what I just viewed I would purchase the 7DII.

joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois

Excuse me for butting in but its hard to judge IQ on monitors especially since they all vary in resolution and settings.

Unless you were both looking at the same image on the same monitor it would be relatively meaningless. Even then each of you may have different preferences.

Data from consistent methods would be more reliable but even that would not take personal preference into account.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

6D is FF, great IQ, esp in low light. 7DII can equal it under many circumstances, but not all, and esp not in low light. It is a pro build and has a fabulous AF system. IQ etc is very good compared to other APS-C cameras.

Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA

Looking at the full size images of the girl's eye lashes, eye lash shadows and bangs, the D7200 image looks sharper to me than the D810.
Bob

steveo52 Loc: Rhode Island and Ocala Florida

A very valid point, makes sense thank you for your input.




The photos I compared were not low light. Sure thing the 6D being an FF should be better IQ. Thanks for the clarification. Did I say I was jealous you've got 2 great cameras? :lol: :lol: I'm using a 70d, almost pulled the trigger on a 6d recently but based on the type shooting I do, the 70d seemed like the better option.

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Crop sensors will produce a tad more noise than FX sensors.
--Bob

joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois

Is a tad 100% more?

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

From an article researched, wrote, and posted here on UHH.

Effects of Sensor Size
Here’s some bad news for adherents of using less than full frame sensors. The size of the sensor area is the largest determinant of signal levels that will determine signal-to-noise ratio. These apparent noise levels assume the aperture area is proportional to the sensor area, or the f-stop or focal-plane illuminance is held constant. What this means is that for a constant f-number, the sensitivity of an image sensor scales approximately with the sensor area. Larger sensors typically create lower noise in images when compared to smaller sensors.

Where images are bright enough to fall in the shot noise restricted level, and are scaled to the same size on the screen, or printed the same size, pixel count makes little difference to perceptible noise levels. The noise depends primarily on the sensor area. It does not depend on how this area is divided into pixels.

For example, the noise level produced by a 4/3 sensor at ISO 800 is approximately equivalent to the noise level produced by an FX sensor at ISO 3200. As an aside, the ability to produce quality images at high ISOs is a major factor in the desirability of FX DSLR cameras, which use larger sensors than compact point and shoots. Examples exist that show a FX DSLR producing less noise at ISO 400 than a point and shoot at ISO 100.

--Bob

chaprick

I had a 7D for quite some time. Then I added a 6D. One night during a full moon I decided to take some moon shots with my Sigma 150-500mm. After shooting with the 7D I changed over to the 6D. Even after cropping I saw better image quality in the 6D shots. At the time I was considering getting a new 7DII which I realize is a better camera than the original 7D. I started reading up on the technical differences between APS-C and Full Frame sensors. After taking those moon shots and doing some research I decided to go with the 5DIII instead of the 7DII. I am still glad I did. I have since sold the 7D and I probably will never buy another cropped sensor camera.