Nightski

Apaflo ... a young photographer quickly realizes that the mistakes made while framing can be impossible to correct in post. It's a process. Nobody get's it perfect right away. The way you talk, you make it sound like an insurmountable task for the beginner. It's not. It's trial and error .. learning .. more trial and error .. more learning ... some decent shots that you are excited about .. then a year later some shots that blow the old ones away that you were excited about. But it's the small early successes that keep me going .. keep me striving for more .. each little bit of new information that gets me to get out and try something new .. if I thought I had to know it all when I started, I would have given up before I began. Thank God I had lighthouse as a mentor, encouraging me on through all my stumbles, celebrating my small successes with me. There were so many people here that laid way too much information at my feet when I first began, I almost gave up. I thought I would never get it, and now I am.

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

You are the first and only person to say learning about framing is insurmountable for a beginner. And to a degree you are right that it is, and wrong to claim it is not. What a beginner (young or not) should be taught, because they may not pick this up on their own, is that because some but not all framing mistakes are impossible to correct in post... the solution is to avoid framing that cannot be corrected in post! Changes to framing that are made in Post are not camera errors! Usually it's just good planning and proper camera operation.

But that is about a specific example cited and your discussion is just an obfuscation of the point. Separation of camera operation from post processing as if there were no connection is a beginner's error. It should not be fostered by this section.


Wonderful! But that is about your growth as a photographer, not about how this section is managed. I do fully expect that in 5, 10, maybe 20 years you'll move beyond the beginner stage of photography. At that time managing this section will become a much smoother operation...

Nightski

So you just posted to insult me ... thanks Apaflo ... :roll:

rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA

Away from insults and back to topic:

I think an interesting issue is the flexibility in control of colors, to achieve a desired relationship between colors in the image. For example, in a controlled environment (such as in a studio or at home), where you can choose lighting and add objects or move them around, versus out in the streets or in nature, where control is much more restricted to framing.

Obviously, one can produce specific color relationships by means of PP, such as changing a baloon from red to yellow. However, transforming a blue sky into a green sky with the purpose of generating a complimentary color is usually not a desirable option, particularly if retaining a sense of realism and believability is of importance.

Nightski

But Apaflo .. with all your experience, you still do not know how to encourage the creativity and spirit of a new photographer. I have been at the other end of you many times, and I always come away feeling discouraged. You don't have to be a 30 year photographer to be helpful and encouraging. Photographers who throw all their knowledge and superiority at you to show off how impressive they are, just discourage new photographers. You have this way of making others feel stupid and inferior. But thankfully I am past that. I know I don't have to know everything. I just have to do my best at the level I'm at.

minniev Loc: MIssissippi

Enjoyed this, was pleased to see he used the work of William Eggleston as one of his examples. Eggleston grew up in the same area I did, and many of his early photos were in the same parts of the Delta that I share images from. He has influenced me more than I sometimes realize.

Nightski

It is truly an art to make something commonplace become something special. I think Jim Hill has a special talent for that as well. I am thinking of his drive by shootings. I've been playing with some of those, and it's great fun.

Nightski

Look hoe Eggeleston uses colour in each of these shots. I love the tricycle one.

http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2013/04/01/10-lessons-william-eggleston-has-taught-me-about-street-photography/

minniev Loc: MIssissippi

That's a great article. I had forgotten the tricycle photo. But not really, I don't guess. I took this one this past winter, only a few miles from Eggleston's home in Tallahatchie county. Tried not to over blur the background because it's not often you see a reindeer lying in a trash heap.

(Download)

Nightski

Wow .. that's awesome, Minnie. What a great find! More subdued colours in this one. I wonder about taking down the green saturation just a bit.

Billyspad Loc: The Philippines

Sandra surely there is room for different ways of achieving an end result? I recently posted a still life of a choc bar in a white cup which you rather liked I believe. That was the best of 106 shots. I just set it up in my front yard and flicked thru camera settings with and without fill flash with the camera on a tripod. A keeper rate of 1% is acceptable to me but maybe not be to you. My shutter count is probably high but I have no interest in the resale value of my camera so never think of that.
Shooting fotos is fun for me thinking about it or talking about it tends to bore me so would you deny an ol' fella his fun?
I do not sell prints not really into entering competitions I just wander around point the Pentax at anything or anybody that looks half interesting and see whats revealed at download time.
I cant join you in serious city but I can still enjoy the hobby we share, we just just enjoy it in a different way and I would never say your approach is wrong and mine is right.

Nightski

As long as you do not try to push your style of photography on to other people I am fine with you doing it your way. In fact I would defend your right to photograph and process in any way that suits you. Will you afford me and other the same respect? If so, we have no problem, Billy. When giving critique, you need to try to understand what the photographer is trying to achieve and give critique that helps them achieve their goal, not yours.

minniev Loc: MIssissippi

Yikes, did not see till now where I'd accidentally crept into this conversation, so even with the likelihood of boring everyone to drink, I'll say something about my own shooting style. Please feel free to pass this by!

I'm an opportunistic shooter. I may go out with a goal (this morning it was water lilies) but I take enough lenses to cover the stray blue heron or the mushroom I've never seen before. I think about post processing while shooting and PP plans drive some of my decisions about settings. I shoot raw only, often with auto WB. I shoot multiple framings of each thing I am photographing and I give myself enough framing leeway in at least some shots to do something different later.

In other words I'm collecting materials from which to make images. I don't consider an image "made" until I've satisfactorily processed it and it looks kinda like I expected. I sometimes can finish an image in LR but most of the time the detail is done in PS. It all starts with a reasonable capture hopefully based on preferred settings, but I'm not above shooting with less than optimal settings to see if I can do something with it. I'm not so picky that I'll walk away with nothing hoping it'll be better shooting conditions next time. I read about pros all the time who shoot only during the proper conditions and only at dawn and sunset. That's great for them but not me. I don't have enough years ahead of me to be that picky. I'll take my goodies where I find them.

Photography is a big tent. There's room for a lot of different ways of doing things.

Nightski

This is how I think too, Minnie. I do think about how I am going to process something while I frame it up. Of course I am not nearly as accomplished as you at post work, but getting there is half the fun. I too have too few years to limit my photography to two short hours a day. I firmly believe that there is a photograph anytime, anywhere. I just have to figure what it is.



Amen to this ... and may we all be respectful of each others differences.