Is this America? From this side of the pond, we are confounded by the American love for their guns and their justification for having them (second amendment). It doesn't read that way...

norman1312 Loc: London, UK

From this side of the pond, we are confounded by the American love for their guns and their justification for having them (second amendment).
It doesn't read that way over here!

BUT, is THIS the way America thinks?

A National Rifle Association executive has suggested the pastor k**led in the Charleston church shooting was partly to blame for the deaths of eight people in his congregation.

Charles Cotton, a lawyer from Texas, claimed some of the victims "might be alive" if Pastor Clementa Pinckney had not v**ed against laws which would have allowed churchgoers to carry concealed handguns.

The NRA board member said Mr Pinckney, a Democrat state senator, had expressed his opposition to the legislation four years ago.

In an online chatroom, Mr Cotton wrote: "Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead."

http://news.sky.com/story/1505619/nra-exec-blames-pastor-for-charleston-shooting

krashdragon

The bad guys dont follow ANY laws.
Sorry about the people that were k**led. No one deserves that.

fishone0 Loc: Kingman AZ

How do you think we won our independence from England and why our founding fathers put it in our constitution so we well continue to be free. Remember Hitler took away everyone's guns and look what happened, By the way during WWII in Europe who did you come to for help

norman1312 Loc: London, UK

fishone0 wrote:

How do you think we won our independence from England and why our founding fathers put it in our constitution so we well continue to be free. Remember Hitler took away everyone's guns and look what happened, By the way during WWII in Europe who did you come to for help

So you've kept them and we keep getting stories of 5 k**led here, 10 there, more elsewhere, year after year after year.
OK, we have our nutters over here as well, but not practically every month.

fishone0 Loc: Kingman AZ

yes I'll keep my gun and now I have something to defend my self with from the bad guys I read how the Muslims are taking over your country, hope you will enjoy sharia law

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

norman1312 wrote:

From this side of the pond, we are confounded by the American love for their guns and their justification for having them (second amendment).
It doesn't read that way over here!

Our 2nd amendment and other gun ideas came from English m*****a laws that required yeoman to own and practice with weapons, first swords and especially the long bow, then later guns. Then after your Civil War the party in power started to pass laws to make it harder for the other guys to have guns and when the e******ns went the other way the favor was returned. After the Potato Famines and the Irish immigrants showing up many laws were to keep the Irish disarmed. (same over here, plus the Hunkies, Italians freed b****s etc. as time went on) In your country it gradually changed from yeoman being required to own weapons to today when you aren't allowed to if you want to. The American Revolution started when the British Army set out to confiscate the m*****a weapons and powder stores. For over a year longer the colonies continued to try to negotiate a peaceful settlement to the issues. They wanted full rights as full British citizens, with local governments controled by the local v**ers and loyal to the crown. They only changed over to independence when that failed.

BUT, is THIS the way America thinks?

A National Rifle Association executive has suggested the pastor k**led in the Charleston church shooting was partly to blame for the deaths of eight people in his congregation.

Charles Cotton, a lawyer from Texas, claimed some of the victims "might be alive" if Pastor Clementa Pinckney had not v**ed against laws which would have allowed churchgoers to carry concealed handguns.

The NRA board member said Mr Pinckney, a Democrat state senator, had expressed his opposition to the legislation four years ago.

In an online chatroom, Mr Cotton wrote: "Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead."

Cotton worded it in a very poor way. (he isn't an executive he is one of 76 members of the board of directors) What he was refering to was that since no one in the church could be armed they were helpless. (the law Mr Pinckney had helped v**e down would have made carry by a tested, licensed person in a church legal, with the church's consent) A couple of years ago in another state a nut case pulled a gun at a church meeting and opened fire on a large crowd of people, a member of the congregation who was a former police officer and holder of a concealed carry license returned fire and the gunman promptly commited suicide. We have far more cases of armed citizens stopping shootings than mass k*****gs. The news media don't report them as much as the k*****gs and the anti-gun people prefer that the information be kept hidden.

http://news.sky.com/story/1505619/nra-exec-blames-pastor-for-charleston-shooting

From this side of the pond, we are confounded by t... (show quote)

Dylann Roof was arrested twice for felony drug possesion and was an addict, it was illegal for him to own or possess a gun. If his father knew this then it was a felony for him to give him the gun. His mother apparently took the gun and hid it from him in her home. He found it and took it back. He told his few friends he "stole" it back. He was known to carry the gun concealed without a permit, also a crime even if it had been legal for him to own it. Other people knew it and didn't report him. He had been telling people he was going to do something for months, they didn't report it. Like most of the other mass k**lers and attempted mass k**lers who were stopped he was on drugs. Often pyschotropic drugs known to alter moods, cause thoughts of suicide or violence and violent outbursts as side effects.

Guns, in themselves don't cause problems, used by sane honest people they don't cause problems. (but those with mental problems have "rights" and often are not reported because of privacy and medical confidenciality laws, so they never get put in the data bases as not allowed to own guns) Even people who carry guns legally don't cause problems, in fact as a group they are much more law abiding than the general population. Example: Florida, just short of 20,000,000 population with 2,385,108 people licensed to carry a concealed weapon.(as of April 30, 2015) That is one out about 14.5 people can carry a gun. Their crime rates are lower than other places. If guns caused crime and violence you would think Florida would be a war zone.

pbearperry Loc: Massachusetts

Hey Norman, being able to own guns makes me a good citizen, not being able to own guns makes you a good subject. By the way, years ago, 5 young men armed with baseball bats jumped out of a car and tried attacking me while I was walking after dinner.Luckily I was armed and they all left in a hurry when I took it out of the holster.No shots fired and I was unscratched.It never made the press like thousands of other stories like mine.

nakkh Loc: San Mateo, Ca

The weirdos at the NRA are 1.2% of the population. Not a majority, just a freaky fringe.

norman1312 wrote:

From this side of the pond, we are confounded by t... (show quote)

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

nakkh wrote:

The weirdos at the NRA are 1.2% of the population. Not a majority, just a freaky fringe.

This member of your 1.2% freaky fringe is also part of the 7.2% fringe group who is a veteran. And my brother is retired after 23 1/2 years, and my oldest son is active duty.

norman1312 Loc: London, UK

The story we got over here was that he was given a gun as a 21st birthday present.
True or false?

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

norman1312 wrote:

The story we got over here was that he was given a gun as a 21st birthday present.
True or false?

That is what is reported. And if true, and the father knew the son was a felon and drug addict then the gifting was a felony and the father could go to prison. From what I know so far the father shouldn't have given this young man a gun under any circumstances. He had a lot of problems. But parents often see the child they want, not the child they have. The mother took the gun away and hid it. He found it and took it back.

Oh, I am a life member of the NRA and a conservative. My biggest complaint with background checks to buy guns is that drug and mental problems often fall under privacy laws and don't get reported so the background check doesn't work and those who are against guns say "See even with a check a nut got a gun." No, the nut got a gun because the data base for the check wan't complete.

norman1312 Loc: London, UK

robertjerl wrote:

Oh, I am a life member of the NRA and a conservative..

Finally, someone I can ask.

I can understand having a rifle for hunting purposes.
What I cannot is why anyone would need a semi-automatic weapon or a hand gun, and especially feel the need to carry it at all times.
We saw that in the wild west films, but now?

Oh, and I've just heard about THREE more shootings over the weekend.

DaveO Loc: Northeast CT

robertjerl wrote:

That is what is reported. And if true, and the fa... (show quote)

Same with me since 1973...I agree that the background check is only a partial effort and it appears that mental health issues are behind many of the heinous incidents. Of course,that makes me a liberal to many....Bite me. I do support the check. I'm in the state who requires magazine registration for "hi-caps",etc,which I find ludicrous,but that's not the issue. :thumbup:

warwoman Loc: NE Georgia Mtns.

norman1312 wrote:

Finally, someone I can ask.

I can understand having a rifle for hunting purposes.
What I cannot is why anyone would need a semi-automatic weapon or a hand gun, and especially feel the need to carry it at all times.
We saw that in the wild west films, but now?

Oh, and I've just heard about THREE more shootings over the weekend.

If you access the Chicago newspapers, you'll most likely hear of a lot more....just saying!

DaveO Loc: Northeast CT

norman1312 wrote:

Finally, someone I can ask.

I can understand having a rifle for hunting purposes.
What I cannot is why anyone would need a semi-automatic weapon or a hand gun, and especially feel the need to carry it at all times.
We saw that in the wild west films, but now?

Oh, and I've just heard about THREE more shootings over the weekend.

Okay,Norman,I'll make it easy: I have these "weapons" in case I want to hunt or protect myself from wild animals. :XD: :XD: