speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho

It is true that they shine using flash, but I like to use them in ambient light especially, it makes a difference of night and day, if you compare your shots with light meter and the ones with the build-in-meter of your camera!!!

MIKE GALLAGHER Loc: New Zealand

rpavich Quote:"I know that I'll get slammed for this but that's life."
Good advice is good advice so just put up with getting slammed. There are a lot of people asking for and needing good advice.

George II Loc: Fayetteville, Georgia

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

George II Loc: Fayetteville, Georgia

I think not, you exhibit a lot of common sense, if people would read your logic and try to learn we would be better off, I for one thank you!
The "G"
"Regulae Stultis Sunt"

romanticf16 Loc: Commerce Twp, MI

Seconic has lots of video tutorials on landscape and nature photography for digital photographers using their Incident Lightmeters.

kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy

Dude! You took the heavy meter by mistake!

BebuLamar

Can you provide some links? I didn't find much in term of using incident meter for landscape. Mostly spotmeter for landscape.

RWR Loc: La Mesa, CA

That's because landscape photographers who use the zone system must meter precisely.

kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy

It's a new era! Bracket your exposures, post-process and mask together...Best of all worlds....

kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy

Sorry double post--but seriously, you get precise control of all parts of the image, and you can adjust them separately. None of the "artificiality" of HDR local operator tonemapping. Just three separate exposures two EV apart each will generally give you everything you need, and you can fire them off in 1/10 the time of doing all the relevant spotmetering...

Plus you can do HDR if you want...Really. Film days are dead and gone.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Uh, if you understand how your light meter works, and you measure your scene correctly, and you understand the zone system, there is no guessing.

Of course, if you do not understand any of the above - it will be hit or miss. I have to agree.

Once again - please explain how you meter any of the situations I have presented - astrophotography, high/low key, stage productions, subjects where half is in shadow and the other in bright light, a bridge at night, a night scene with lots of bright lights as part of the scene creating light in the scene, the top of the Empire State Building at night, sunrise/sunset, etc etc. Is it possible that you never shot images under these circumstances? Could it be that you could not meter it with your incident meter and just passed on the opportunity?

How would you use your incident meter to read this? Would you have to put your incident meter away, and start bracketing? Pure guesswork and luck if you have to take that route. Or maybe you have a drone equipped with a means of activating the meter remotely so you could fly it up to the sunlight, take your reading, bring it back and set your camera accordingly. BTW, my camera position was in deep shade.

How I metered it was to use the spot meter function in my camera, read the sun-splashed granite, added 1.3 stops of light to the reading and ended up with the correct exposure.

You can argue this all day long and I because I own both incident, reflected meters and all my cameras have in-camera meters, and I used a hand helds spotmeter for 47 yrs - I can say, with no reservations at all, that your incident method cannot be used here. It would spit out a number for you, but you wouldn't be able to use it.

(Download)

rpavich Loc: West Virginia

Thank you. I had bailed out on this conversation but came back to it out of curiosity, and read this (and Mike Gallagher's comment) and smiled.

I appreciate the kind comments.

rpavich Loc: West Virginia

Boy...typical response.

If you don't like what someone says; then take an example where it's not the best solution and toss in an insult while you're at it.

I never ever say "Incident meters are the ONLY and best way to measure light IN ALL SITUATIONS..."

Nobody has ever heard me say that...because I don't.

Leitz Loc: Solms

[quote=Apaflo]Hand held light meters are significantly better than the meter in a camera for precisely 1 thing: measuring flash. That's it. (That will include anything shot in a studio using strobes.) [quote]

:thumbup: I will assert that, with the digital camera's instant feedback, and intelligent observation of the histogram, there are very few situations in which any hand-held meter - incident, flash or reflected - will be more efficient. Indeed, one sees more flashbulbs in use than separate meters these days!

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

It's not that I don't like what you say. However, when you make broad sweeping and questionable general statements like

"Where the camera will make bad assumptions about the exposure, an incident meter will not be fooled, indoors, outdoors, in all conditions"

and

"It's the difference between "oh..that's good enough, I can goose it up in Lightroom" and "ahh...there is the exact exposure for the conditions, all spelled out in numbers""

and

"I agree...if you second guess your meter at every turn and adjust until you get "close enough" and only have to fix some in Lightroom for exposure. I don't want to spend my time grabbing the steering wheel on the passenger side of the vehicle...I'd like to be the only driver of the car."

and

"Well..I realize the distinction, but in the real world, they get fooled.

Just go out side and point your 85mm lens at something and then spin in a circle and watch the meter do it's impression of a ceiling fan.

Now...which is correct? The reading of the green trees? White car? Blue car?...yellow house?

You don't actually know.

So....technically it doesn't get "fooled" but in practice, it amounts to the same thing."

and

"Except that the resulting "adjusted by eye" metering job by the "experienced" photog is just a guess. could be good guess or a poor guess but it's a guess none-the-less.
Only an incident meter spits out a number."

There are several common threads through the entire series of responses.

1. You are the only person who can be correct on metering.

2. Using an incident meter is the only way to ensure - guarantee, actually - precise results. (only an incident meter spits out a number).

3. Reflected light meters are inherently inaccurate, and therefore somehow less suitable than incident metering - because they can be fooled.

4. When challenged you project. I asked several times how best to meter a number of different scenarios with an incident meter. You could not bring yourself to admit that it could not be done.

5. In all likelihood, your bias against reflected meters, whether in camera or in the form of a very precise 1 degree spotmeter, prevents you from embracing a different way of doing things that I am sure is used by most successful landscape photographers (the OP's original question), and a variety of other venues.

I stand by my comment. You can't get your head around the Zone System and how to rely upon your experience and knowledge of your gear to properly and competently evaluate the tonal values to precisely, in EV - assign any tone to any zone in the zone system. I get that. I would suggest (at the risk of sounding insulting, not my intention at all) that you might just want to look into that (or not, your choice), as it would probably enhance your skills and make you a better photographer.

This is one of those rare moments where Floyd and I are in complete agreement on a subject - in camera meters are fine. Incident is best used under controlled lighting, or when the contrast range does not exceed the dynamic range of the camera. Otherwise you risk blown highlights.

My favorite quote on the subject is this:

"Hi Bill. In theory, a spot meter reading off a gray card (angled as recommended by Kodak) should give the same result as an incident meter reading. But a better approach is to use the spot meter to see what the range of the scene is, allowing you to be sure that the highlights won't be blown out. The spot meter gives you more control, but takes a little more thought."

from:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-749.html

And of course this debate raged on that thread. But I maintain that if you understand the entire concept, you can be just as accurate with reflected (spotmeter), in camera spot meter, Expodisc on lens (using the camera as an incident meter), or with an incident meter - except for those times when it is completely impractical to use the incident approach.

My question to you remains, what do YOU do in those situations?

One thing is certain - knowing how to properly evaluate tonality in a scene and how to use reflected light meters - specifically hand-held spot or in camera spot - lets you take accurately exposed images in ANY situation. But you have to invest the time to learn those skills.

I agree with you on one thing - to the uninitiated, it does seem a little bit like guesswork. Just like the cop on speed patrol who can estimate your speed within 1 mpg at 65mph even looking through a rear view mirror. It is a learn-able skill.