Light Meters for Landscapes
Jun 12, 2015 09:40:42 #
My old Minolta IV F light meter came with an opaque semi-spherical attachment for measuring the light of distant landscapes more precisely. I hope this helps.
Jun 12, 2015 09:41:16 #
RWR
Loc: La Mesa, CA
lamiaceae wrote:
Reading thru these,
everybody's right if everybody's wrong.
Basically there is some sound information here, but it seems many of us use or understand the tools differently. This seems to be one case were a lot of the variance is still correct. I read many that are totally different from what I learned (about metering and exposure), but after thinking about it, I now think "that could work". But of course, unfortunately a few people are lost as usual.
Peace!
everybody's right if everybody's wrong.
Basically there is some sound information here, but it seems many of us use or understand the tools differently. This seems to be one case were a lot of the variance is still correct. I read many that are totally different from what I learned (about metering and exposure), but after thinking about it, I now think "that could work". But of course, unfortunately a few people are lost as usual.
Peace!
I think (hope!) everyone realizes that accurate exposure can be obtained with either meter, but to say that a hand-held meter is superior to a camera's built-in meter for landscapes shows a lack of understanding of the subject.
Jun 12, 2015 09:50:07 #
RWR wrote:
So far we have more facts than opinions in this thread, though!
Yes but who is counting? :thumbup:
My point is there are always differences. Not that its a bad thing but in some cases ( like a Nikon vs. canon debate ) you will NEVER get every to agree. In my book thats opinion. I do hope that some useful information can be gleaned from this thread as you point out there are facts offered.
Jun 12, 2015 09:58:42 #
woolpac
Loc: Sydney Australia
Gene51 wrote:
The camera is not supposed to adjust anything. It's entirely up to you. Have you ever used a hand held meter to shoot stage performances, fireworks, street scenes at night, strongly backlit subjects, sunsets, etc etc etc - you need to use the horse-sense acquired over the years to get that "great" shot and if you rely too much on the meter, that great shot may be beyond reach. Here is an example where an in-camera meter has a clear advantage over any other metering approach:
I fail to see the relevance of this shot are you implying that a device used to measure the intensity of light be it in camera or hand held has one advantage over the other . Sorry, just a bit confused where you say reliance on the meter the shot may be beyond reach, then in camera metering has a clear advantage. Are you meaning in camera metering is more convenient.
Jun 12, 2015 10:02:52 #
RWR wrote:
I think (hope!) everyone realizes that accurate exposure can be obtained with either meter, but to say that a hand-held meter is superior to a camera's built-in meter for landscapes shows a lack of understanding of the subject.
Let me think about that for a moment . . . .
I definitely do not agree with the notion that either meter will provide accurate exposure information. I would not select an incident meter, or even a hand-held spot meter to do any of these shots. And up until recently I had all three (sold my Pentax 1 degree Spotmeter with Zone VI mod a yr ago).Now I only have a Gossen Luna Pro (old style - mercury batteries are a problem so I never use it anymore), and a LunaPro SBC - which uses standard 9v battery - I use it to set up flash in studio with the flash attachment.
I find that other than the studio stuff with flash, I get great results using the camera's meter and horse sense.
Jun 12, 2015 10:17:58 #
O
Being supremely confident that a variety of contrary opinions, all suported by a variety of supposedly incontrovertible, supposedly unarguable, putative facts, I'll simply tell you what I use, and find most effective.
My cameras are all equipped with TLL metering: spot, center weighted, and averaging. I carry a Luna pro hand-held reflective and incident meter, as well as a Pentax analog spot-reading meter, and a Kodak standard "Gray card". As a long-time adherent of the Zone System of Exposure (ZSE) I have found that either incident light metering or spot reading off the Gray card to provide the most reliable base exposure ( that does, with but rare exceptions, differ from the "Sunny f/16" base exposure that I have, after more than 60 years of practice, practically intuitively determined while pulling out this or that meter or card....). Depending on the particular landscape, it's topographical features, foreground features, and the character of the sky I will spot read, variously, shadow details, non-spectral highlights, and various important subject values between the extremes to aid in "placing" my "Zone V" exposure such that the other values fall in the regions of gray that coincide with my previsualization of the final image. The accuracy and replicability of my meter's responses in the manner that they are used has, for many years, exceeded those characteristics of any of the TTL meters I've tried to use...and that covers those in at least the seven or eight top-selling SLR and DSLR brands.
Just one guy's experience and seriously, carefully, considered opinion.
Dave
Russ1700 wrote:
I've read a lot of the info on HH regarding the use of hand held light meters. Most of the comments refer to studio or portrait shots.
My question sis there any benefit in using a hand held light meter outdoors when taking a landscape shot?
Thanks for your comments
My question sis there any benefit in using a hand held light meter outdoors when taking a landscape shot?
Thanks for your comments
Being supremely confident that a variety of contrary opinions, all suported by a variety of supposedly incontrovertible, supposedly unarguable, putative facts, I'll simply tell you what I use, and find most effective.
My cameras are all equipped with TLL metering: spot, center weighted, and averaging. I carry a Luna pro hand-held reflective and incident meter, as well as a Pentax analog spot-reading meter, and a Kodak standard "Gray card". As a long-time adherent of the Zone System of Exposure (ZSE) I have found that either incident light metering or spot reading off the Gray card to provide the most reliable base exposure ( that does, with but rare exceptions, differ from the "Sunny f/16" base exposure that I have, after more than 60 years of practice, practically intuitively determined while pulling out this or that meter or card....). Depending on the particular landscape, it's topographical features, foreground features, and the character of the sky I will spot read, variously, shadow details, non-spectral highlights, and various important subject values between the extremes to aid in "placing" my "Zone V" exposure such that the other values fall in the regions of gray that coincide with my previsualization of the final image. The accuracy and replicability of my meter's responses in the manner that they are used has, for many years, exceeded those characteristics of any of the TTL meters I've tried to use...and that covers those in at least the seven or eight top-selling SLR and DSLR brands.
Just one guy's experience and seriously, carefully, considered opinion.
Dave
Jun 12, 2015 10:25:14 #
RWR
Loc: La Mesa, CA
Uuglypher wrote:
O br br Being supremely confident that a variety ... (show quote)
:thumbup: Excellent!
Jun 12, 2015 10:37:23 #
ssymeono wrote:
My old Minolta IV F light meter came with an opaque semi-spherical attachment for measuring the light of distant landscapes more precisely. I hope this helps.
Actually that hemisphere of translucent material is used for measuring incident light where the meter is located. If the landscape is in the same light, then you are good to go. Otherwise experience will offer you the fudge factor you need to adjust the camera settings.
Lacking experience, switch to a spot meter and find yourself a nice patch of flat (read not shiny) patch of middle gray.
Jun 12, 2015 10:40:23 #
rpavich wrote:
Yes, a meter is a GOOD thing to have and you will not only use it, but you will learn A LOT by using it.
It's the difference between "oh..that's good enough, I can goose it up in Lightroom" and "ahh...there is the exact exposure for the conditions, all spelled out in numbers"
I know that I'll get slammed for this but that's life.
It's the difference between "oh..that's good enough, I can goose it up in Lightroom" and "ahh...there is the exact exposure for the conditions, all spelled out in numbers"
I know that I'll get slammed for this but that's life.
Hi rpavich
I fully agree with you of the use of a handheld meter lt is a wonderful tool I have one and I use it most of time. I grew up in the days of film it has taught me a lot about light and the lack of as well. Now days these johnny comelatlys just don't have any knowledge of how to use one and that's to bad and stupidity just goes on, on.
Jun 12, 2015 10:41:01 #
BobHartung wrote:
Actually that hemisphere of translucent material is used for measuring incident light where the meter is located. If the landscape is in the same light, then you are good to go. Otherwise experience will offer you the fudge factor you need to adjust the camera settings.
Lacking experience, switch to a spot meter an find yourself a nice patch of flat (read not shiny) patch of middle gray.
Lacking experience, switch to a spot meter an find yourself a nice patch of flat (read not shiny) patch of middle gray.
Absolutely correct. The basic assumption of using the incident meter is that it and the target landscape ARE IN THE SAME LIGHT! If the lighting is such that where your incident meter is located is not representative of the scene you are imaging, put the cap on it or spot-read your gray card that IS illuminated the same way your scene is!
Dave
Addendum....
I've been asked " How do I do that from the driver's seat of my car?"
Answer: "Get out of your damned car!"
Jun 12, 2015 10:44:16 #
CO wrote:
Incident light meters aren't very useful for outdoor photography because you need to get the meter next to your subject. I have a Sekonic L-478DR that I use for studio shots. There's an optional 5-degree attachment available for it for taking reflected light readings. I haven't purchased it because my camera's built-in meter does a great job for that.
If your light source is the sun the extra distance doesn't really matter ;)
Jun 12, 2015 10:50:19 #
kymarto wrote:
If your light source is the sun the extra distance doesn't really matter ;)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Jun 12, 2015 10:52:06 #
RWR
Loc: La Mesa, CA
Gene51 wrote:
Let me think about that for a moment . . . . br b... (show quote)
Horse sense is definitely the key! Whatever a meter reads, has to be interpreted.
Wein makes a replacement battery for those 1.35V mercury batteries (MRB-625 Weincell). I also have a conversion unit that uses 2 1.55V EPX76 or equivalent batteries in my Luna Pro. I shoot mostly 6 X 7 and 6 X 9 film, and since none of those cameras has a meter the old Luna Pro gets a lot of use.
Jun 12, 2015 10:53:43 #
I greatly respect the thoughts from Dave & Gene. Here's what I draw from their comments/experience: Many are satisfied to trust the camera's meter for exposure. A certain percentage of the time--that may be sufficient.
There are times, however, when based on these photographers' understanding of the Zone System, some fine-tuning is necessary to take the image beyond the ordinary. In a nut shell what they are doing is analyzing the scene before them and making a conscious decision about which tone to assign to a specific portion of the image as they see it in print. The critical element is the thought process and the application of a system that works-- if one is willing do the work.
So they'll correct me if I misrepresented... and that's ok.
Allen ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
There are times, however, when based on these photographers' understanding of the Zone System, some fine-tuning is necessary to take the image beyond the ordinary. In a nut shell what they are doing is analyzing the scene before them and making a conscious decision about which tone to assign to a specific portion of the image as they see it in print. The critical element is the thought process and the application of a system that works-- if one is willing do the work.
So they'll correct me if I misrepresented... and that's ok.
Allen ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
Jun 12, 2015 10:54:52 #
RWR wrote:
Horse sense is definitely the key! Whatever a meter reads, has to be interpreted.
Wein makes a replacement battery for those 1.35V mercury batteries (MRB-625 Weincell). I also have a conversion unit that uses 2 1.55V EPX76 or equivalent batteries in my Luna Pro. I shoot mostly 6 X 7 and 6 X 9 film, and since none of those cameras has a meter the old Luna Pro gets a lot of use.
Wein makes a replacement battery for those 1.35V mercury batteries (MRB-625 Weincell). I also have a conversion unit that uses 2 1.55V EPX76 or equivalent batteries in my Luna Pro. I shoot mostly 6 X 7 and 6 X 9 film, and since none of those cameras has a meter the old Luna Pro gets a lot of use.
I have used the air gap batteries - but at $10 (for two), given the amount if use I get out of it, I just don't use it anymore. But in all honesty it was the first meter I ever purchased, to use with my Leica 3f back in 1967.
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