Question about lightroom and Photoshop CC
May 24, 2015 10:28:02 #
bud 77 wrote:
I am a long time user of Elements and am quite com... (show quote)
Lynda.com has an extensive list of both Lightroom and Photoshop tutorials numbering many, many hours of learning. I find it well worth the annual subscription cost given how much I have invested in cameras, printer, computer, etc.
And yes, the LR+PS combination is great, in my eyes. There is other PP software out there so only you can choose for you.
May 24, 2015 11:00:49 #
steveg48 wrote:
Hi Gene, br I am a satisfied LR and Photoshop CC u... (show quote)
Truth is, although I see lots of "finished" images out of LR, I have yet to see one, among 1000s, that cannot be improved upon with subtle simple additional adjustment, at the pixel level, in either PS or in any one of a number of plugins. The ability to selectively extract detail seems to be a big one, but there are many other areas where improvements can be made.
May 24, 2015 11:15:58 #
The best tutorials I've seen and used are taught online by Creative Live or creativelive.com
They have tutorials on LR and PS by Ben Willmore, Dave Cross, Jack Davis and Lesa Snider that are the best. They sell the tutorials for $99 to $149 but are well worth it.
As far as the difference between LR and PSE:
PSE is really 3 programs in one. It's an Organizer, it's a layering editor, and it's a raw editor all in one. But it's organizer gets slow when your catalog of images approaches 10,000, it's layering is limited to mostly 8-bit images and is limited to what it can do compared to PS CC, and the raw editor is a stripped down version of Photoshop CC's ACR (Adobe Camera Raw) and can only do about 20% of what ACR can do. LR has a powerful organizer, and is basically the same raw editor as Photoshop CC but on steroids with a slightly easier to use interface. The only thing LR can't do is layers and/or compositing. It's not very efficient at retouching either. So that is why most photographers pay the $9.99/month for Photoshop/CC and LR/CC. Those 2 programs really compliment each other.
They have tutorials on LR and PS by Ben Willmore, Dave Cross, Jack Davis and Lesa Snider that are the best. They sell the tutorials for $99 to $149 but are well worth it.
As far as the difference between LR and PSE:
PSE is really 3 programs in one. It's an Organizer, it's a layering editor, and it's a raw editor all in one. But it's organizer gets slow when your catalog of images approaches 10,000, it's layering is limited to mostly 8-bit images and is limited to what it can do compared to PS CC, and the raw editor is a stripped down version of Photoshop CC's ACR (Adobe Camera Raw) and can only do about 20% of what ACR can do. LR has a powerful organizer, and is basically the same raw editor as Photoshop CC but on steroids with a slightly easier to use interface. The only thing LR can't do is layers and/or compositing. It's not very efficient at retouching either. So that is why most photographers pay the $9.99/month for Photoshop/CC and LR/CC. Those 2 programs really compliment each other.
bud 77 wrote:
I am a long time user of Elements and am quite com... (show quote)
May 24, 2015 11:50:12 #
jeep_daddy wrote:
The best tutorials I've seen and used are taught o... (show quote)
Jeep, LR is a parametric editor - and cannot do pixel level editing - not having layers is just part of the problem - It has no color channeling, cannot edit in different modes (CMYK, RGB, Lab), no color space or color management, no ability to target specific areas with any kind of accuracy, no ability to make and use selections, no smart objects, only 4 filters (no liquify/blur/dodge&burn/clone stamp/bucket fill/paintbrush/text/blend modes for layers and brushes/etc etc etc making it unsuitable for finish work on an image. This is why I recommend that people consider the complete solution - LR/PS so they have everything they need.
May 24, 2015 14:13:19 #
amfoto1
Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
You can still buy a stand-alone copy of Lightroom, it's not only subscription-based (yet).
OP appears to be primarily asking about LR... not so much about PS CC (in spite of the topic title). They are asking if LR would help their workflow, first using LR and then finishing images in Elements, which they already have and use. (PS seems more of an afterthought to the OP.)
I would say give it a try. I believe you can still download a 30 day trial of LR, then buy it if you wish... or not, if you don't find it helpful.
Be prepared with some books or tutorials to get up to speed using LR quickly, during the trial period. 30 days is enough to decide for yourself, but can fly by pretty quickly.
I use LR in combination with PS. For my purposes, neither is complete. LR gets better with each version, but it's primarily just as Gene51 describes... an organization tool with light image optimization and powerful batch RAW conversion capabilities. (It also can do some other stuff, such as interface with websites, produce slide shows, make proof books, etc.)
But, to finish images, I use Photoshop. That gives much greater image editing, retouching, etc. capabilities (but minimal cataloging and sorting).
Elements is sort of a light version of both LR and PS, borrowing many of the key aspects from each of them. Elements is designed more as a stand-alone program. It is not "as good" at the things LR and PS can do... but it also is far less expensive and much simpler to use than either of them.
If you find your image library has grown to the point where Elements is inconvenient to use to manage it, by all means... Lightroom can help. You can choose whether to buy it outright, or lease it on a monthly basis (unlike Photoshop, which is only available cloud-based now).
Adobe seems to be updating the cloud-based version of LR first, then releasing updates to the purchased version later. Since the two are the same, there is no reason for this, except that they are probably doing it to encourage people to subscribe rather than buy.
Note for purpose of full disclosure: I am not a fan of subscription-based software and I do not like or want constant "background" updates... I want to control updates and implement them as I find them necessary and useful. Too often I've seen updates change or reset something, upsetting the results I have dialed in and learned to expect, and am left wondering what happened and scrambling to try to correct things.
But I think mainly it just irks me that Adobe doesn't simply offer a choice with Photoshop - subscription or outright purchase - same as Lightroom. There really is no good reason for them not to offer it both ways, unless it's their game plan to bump up the subscription price significantly sometime in the future, once they have the bulk of users converted to the cloud-based software.
OP appears to be primarily asking about LR... not so much about PS CC (in spite of the topic title). They are asking if LR would help their workflow, first using LR and then finishing images in Elements, which they already have and use. (PS seems more of an afterthought to the OP.)
I would say give it a try. I believe you can still download a 30 day trial of LR, then buy it if you wish... or not, if you don't find it helpful.
Be prepared with some books or tutorials to get up to speed using LR quickly, during the trial period. 30 days is enough to decide for yourself, but can fly by pretty quickly.
I use LR in combination with PS. For my purposes, neither is complete. LR gets better with each version, but it's primarily just as Gene51 describes... an organization tool with light image optimization and powerful batch RAW conversion capabilities. (It also can do some other stuff, such as interface with websites, produce slide shows, make proof books, etc.)
But, to finish images, I use Photoshop. That gives much greater image editing, retouching, etc. capabilities (but minimal cataloging and sorting).
Elements is sort of a light version of both LR and PS, borrowing many of the key aspects from each of them. Elements is designed more as a stand-alone program. It is not "as good" at the things LR and PS can do... but it also is far less expensive and much simpler to use than either of them.
If you find your image library has grown to the point where Elements is inconvenient to use to manage it, by all means... Lightroom can help. You can choose whether to buy it outright, or lease it on a monthly basis (unlike Photoshop, which is only available cloud-based now).
Adobe seems to be updating the cloud-based version of LR first, then releasing updates to the purchased version later. Since the two are the same, there is no reason for this, except that they are probably doing it to encourage people to subscribe rather than buy.
Note for purpose of full disclosure: I am not a fan of subscription-based software and I do not like or want constant "background" updates... I want to control updates and implement them as I find them necessary and useful. Too often I've seen updates change or reset something, upsetting the results I have dialed in and learned to expect, and am left wondering what happened and scrambling to try to correct things.
But I think mainly it just irks me that Adobe doesn't simply offer a choice with Photoshop - subscription or outright purchase - same as Lightroom. There really is no good reason for them not to offer it both ways, unless it's their game plan to bump up the subscription price significantly sometime in the future, once they have the bulk of users converted to the cloud-based software.
May 24, 2015 15:43:54 #
One can do a trial of LR for 30 days off the Adobe website and see if you like it for free. Also I recommend Anthony Morganti who has a web site and you tube videos for LR tutorials which are quite good and free. Try it, you may like it. I did.
May 24, 2015 17:32:32 #
H
If you were a pro, you would just expense it and move on! Ten bucks a month to edit photos you can charge hundreds for? Peanuts!
Those who create and update SOFTware are entitled to make a living, too!
mldavis2 wrote:
I have replied to these constant streams of redund... (show quote)
If you were a pro, you would just expense it and move on! Ten bucks a month to edit photos you can charge hundreds for? Peanuts!
Those who create and update SOFTware are entitled to make a living, too!
May 24, 2015 17:56:46 #
burkphoto wrote:
H
If you were a pro, you would just expense it and move on! Ten bucks a month to edit photos you can charge hundreds for? Peanuts!
Those who create and update SOFTware are entitled to make a living, too!
If you were a pro, you would just expense it and move on! Ten bucks a month to edit photos you can charge hundreds for? Peanuts!
Those who create and update SOFTware are entitled to make a living, too!
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
He brings this down upon himself. :)
May 24, 2015 18:03:10 #
Gene51 wrote:
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
He brings this down upon himself. :)
He brings this down upon himself. :)
I can see that. LOL. :D
May 24, 2015 18:36:20 #
burkphoto wrote:
H
If you were a pro, you would just expense it and move on! Ten bucks a month to edit photos you can charge hundreds for? Peanuts!
Those who create and update SOFTware are entitled to make a living, too!
If you were a pro, you would just expense it and move on! Ten bucks a month to edit photos you can charge hundreds for? Peanuts!
Those who create and update SOFTware are entitled to make a living, too!
:thumbup: :thumbup:
Even if you are NOT a pro, it's worth it.
May 24, 2015 18:42:47 #
bud 77 wrote:
I am a long time user of Elements and am quite com... (show quote)
That "should" word is a key. As you might have seen in some of the posts above there are strong opinions here and there are those who try to shout down other's opinions that they disagree with. Shame on all of you who do that.
Ok... now that I have gotten that off my chest....
Since you are an experienced user of "Elements" you will very likely easily adapt to other post-processing software tools, as they all have some things in common. So why not try the 30 day free Lightroom (or other software) trial and see how you like it, see how it fits your needs and how it fits into you workflow?
May 24, 2015 19:15:54 #
mdorn wrote:
:thumbup: :thumbup:
Even if you are NOT a pro, it's worth it.
Even if you are NOT a pro, it's worth it.
If you use it, yes. Tens of thousands of hours and over a decade of calendar time have been put into Lightroom. It's an incredible bargain the way they're selling it.
May 24, 2015 19:29:15 #
JD750 wrote:
That "should" word is a key. As you mig... (show quote)
Reasonable approach. Try GIMP, too ,it's freeware.
May 24, 2015 21:07:54 #
bud 77
Loc: Long Beach, WA
Gene51 wrote:
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
He brings this down upon himself. :)
He brings this down upon himself. :)
Gene51, I seem to have stirred up a hornets nest on a subject I thought you explained very well. I down loaded Photoshop CC two weeks ago and can get around in it quite well because of my elements experience. What I have never done is use the organizer in Elements. I have always stored my photos in My pictures and it has worked for me. Now it seems most experienced users think Lightroom is the way to go for keeping tract of your photos. I am going to give it a try. I would like to thank all that responded to my email and pointed out the good and the not so good. $10.00 a month for a program that is always up to date seems like a good deal to me. Costs $75.00 or so for elements and need to upgrade often to stay current Thanks All!! bud
May 24, 2015 21:40:22 #
bud 77 wrote:
Gene51, I seem to have stirred up a hornets nest o... (show quote)
Ok That is more info than provided at first. I suggest that if you have an organizational system that works for you then screw what others say (including what I say). Lol.
I have a friend who uses the OS tools to organize his large collection of travel photos. The OS tools ALWAYS work, no worries about broken software from OS updates, or about a manuf discontinuing the software (Aperture).
However LR does facilitate that system, you won't have to change any of your file structure and LR will provide some additional database tools.
I am glad to hear you are going to evaluate it for yourself.
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