Question for English People
Apr 13, 2015 06:46:14 #
What's the story with Dr. and Mr. when referring to doctors? I watch a lot of English movies and TV shows, and dentists are often called Mr., although not always. Last night, a policeman referred to a surgeon as doctor, and the nurse quickly corrected him saying, "It's Mr., and he's very particular about that."
Apr 13, 2015 07:05:02 #
It's a sort of pecking order Jerry, it roughly means that the 'Mr' is a surgeon/consultant and higher up the ladder rather than a bog standard Doctor or Dentist. Still if I'm ill I'll settle for anyone with a medical degree regardless of what they are called.
Apr 13, 2015 07:10:48 #
It's the same here. They go to University and get called "Jones". They get a job in a hospital and get called "Doctor". So then they specialiize and finally get called "Mr Jones.
Apr 13, 2015 08:02:48 #
MIKE GALLAGHER wrote:
It's the same here. They go to University and get called "Jones". They get a job in a hospital and get called "Doctor". So then they specialiize and finally get called "Mr Jones.
Very interesting. Thanks.
Apr 13, 2015 16:30:53 #
From the Royal College of Surgeons website.
Why are surgeons in the UK called Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs, rather than Dr?
In most other parts of the world all medical practitioners, physicians and surgeons alike, are referred to as Dr while in the UK surgeons are usually referred to as Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs. This is because, from the Middle Ages physicians had to embark on formal university training to gain possession of a degree in medicine before they could enter practice. The possession of this degree, a doctorate, entitled them to the title of Doctor of Medicine or Doctor.
The training of surgeons until the mid-19th century was different. They did not have to go to university to gain a degree; instead they usually served as an apprentice to a surgeon. Afterwards they took an examination. In London, after 1745, this was conducted by the Surgeons' Company and after 1800 by The Royal College of Surgeons. If successful they were awarded a diploma, not a degree, therefore they were unable to call themselves 'Doctor', and stayed instead with the title 'Mr'.
Outside London and in the largest cities, the surgeon served as an apprentice like many other tradesmen, but did not necessarily take any examination. Today all medical practitioners, whether physicians or surgeons have to undertake training at medical school to obtain a qualifying degree. Thereafter a further period of postgraduate study and training through junior posts is required before full consultant surgeon status is achieved. Thus the tradition of a surgeon being referred to as Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs has continued, meaning that in effect a person starts as Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs, becomes a Dr and then goes back to being a Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs again!
It's just an example of British inverse snobbery Jerry.
Why are surgeons in the UK called Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs, rather than Dr?
In most other parts of the world all medical practitioners, physicians and surgeons alike, are referred to as Dr while in the UK surgeons are usually referred to as Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs. This is because, from the Middle Ages physicians had to embark on formal university training to gain possession of a degree in medicine before they could enter practice. The possession of this degree, a doctorate, entitled them to the title of Doctor of Medicine or Doctor.
The training of surgeons until the mid-19th century was different. They did not have to go to university to gain a degree; instead they usually served as an apprentice to a surgeon. Afterwards they took an examination. In London, after 1745, this was conducted by the Surgeons' Company and after 1800 by The Royal College of Surgeons. If successful they were awarded a diploma, not a degree, therefore they were unable to call themselves 'Doctor', and stayed instead with the title 'Mr'.
Outside London and in the largest cities, the surgeon served as an apprentice like many other tradesmen, but did not necessarily take any examination. Today all medical practitioners, whether physicians or surgeons have to undertake training at medical school to obtain a qualifying degree. Thereafter a further period of postgraduate study and training through junior posts is required before full consultant surgeon status is achieved. Thus the tradition of a surgeon being referred to as Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs has continued, meaning that in effect a person starts as Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs, becomes a Dr and then goes back to being a Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs again!
It's just an example of British inverse snobbery Jerry.
Apr 13, 2015 17:02:52 #
Luggerbugs wrote:
From the Royal College of Surgeons website. br br... (show quote)
Thanks. Just a bit confusing. :D
Apr 13, 2015 17:47:57 #
[quote=Luggerbugs]From the Royal College of Surgeons website.
Why are surgeons in the UK called Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs, rather than Dr?
In most other parts of the world all medical practitioners, physicians and surgeons alike, are referred to as Dr while in the UK surgeons are usually referred to as Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs. This is because, from the Middle Ages physicians had to embark on formal university training to gain possession of a degree in medicine before they could enter practice. The possession of this degree, a doctorate, entitled them to the title of Doctor of Medicine or Doctor.
The training of surgeons until the mid-19th century was different. They did not have to go to university to gain a degree; instead they usually served as an apprentice to a surgeon. Afterwards they took an examination. In London, after 1745, this was conducted by the Surgeons' Company and after 1800 by The Royal College of Surgeons. If successful they were awarded a diploma, not a degree, therefore they were unable to call themselves 'Doctor', and stayed instead with the title 'Mr'.
Outside London and in the largest cities, the surgeon served as an apprentice like many other tradesmen, but did not necessarily take any examination. Today all medical practitioners, whether physicians or surgeons have to undertake training at medical school to obtain a qualifying degree. Thereafter a further period of postgraduate study and training through junior posts is required before full consultant surgeon status is achieved. Thus the tradition of a surgeon being referred to as Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs has continued, meaning that in effect a person starts as Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs, becomes a Dr and then goes back to being a Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs again!
It's just an example of British inverse snobbery Jerry.
Blimey Bob...Your not a surgeon are you?
Why are surgeons in the UK called Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs, rather than Dr?
In most other parts of the world all medical practitioners, physicians and surgeons alike, are referred to as Dr while in the UK surgeons are usually referred to as Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs. This is because, from the Middle Ages physicians had to embark on formal university training to gain possession of a degree in medicine before they could enter practice. The possession of this degree, a doctorate, entitled them to the title of Doctor of Medicine or Doctor.
The training of surgeons until the mid-19th century was different. They did not have to go to university to gain a degree; instead they usually served as an apprentice to a surgeon. Afterwards they took an examination. In London, after 1745, this was conducted by the Surgeons' Company and after 1800 by The Royal College of Surgeons. If successful they were awarded a diploma, not a degree, therefore they were unable to call themselves 'Doctor', and stayed instead with the title 'Mr'.
Outside London and in the largest cities, the surgeon served as an apprentice like many other tradesmen, but did not necessarily take any examination. Today all medical practitioners, whether physicians or surgeons have to undertake training at medical school to obtain a qualifying degree. Thereafter a further period of postgraduate study and training through junior posts is required before full consultant surgeon status is achieved. Thus the tradition of a surgeon being referred to as Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs has continued, meaning that in effect a person starts as Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs, becomes a Dr and then goes back to being a Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs again!
It's just an example of British inverse snobbery Jerry.
Blimey Bob...Your not a surgeon are you?
Apr 14, 2015 01:52:25 #
[quote=Doddy]
Scalpel please nurse for this chap Doddy. Now, where shall we start?
Luggerbugs wrote:
From the Royal College of Surgeons website. br br... (show quote)
Scalpel please nurse for this chap Doddy. Now, where shall we start?
Apr 14, 2015 04:23:56 #
Apr 14, 2015 05:57:06 #
jerryc41 wrote:
What's the story with Dr. and Mr. when referring to doctors? I watch a lot of English movies and TV shows, and dentists are often called Mr., although not always. Last night, a policeman referred to a surgeon as doctor, and the nurse quickly corrected him saying, "It's Mr., and he's very particular about that."
Hi,
The real fun starts when a surgeon, to be addressed as Mr, acquires a Phd , which entitles him to be called Dr. So now he is Dr. Mr. ! Trust us English to confuse and complicate things.
Apr 14, 2015 06:40:29 #
Luggerbugs is correct, though there is a bit more. For most physicians and GPs in the UK, their medical degree allows them to take the title 'Doctor'. Other degrees do not allow this unless the person has earned the post graduate qualification of a PhD (doctor of philosophy). Some medical doctors do this and become doctors twice! (Doctors squared?)
In recent years a degree in dentistry has also allowed the use of the honourific title 'Doctor'.
Historically surgeons developed from barber surgeons, as owning sharp steel and knowing how to keep it sharp was significant in itself. Some surgeons and physicians remain disdainful of the other to this day...
In recent years a degree in dentistry has also allowed the use of the honourific title 'Doctor'.
Historically surgeons developed from barber surgeons, as owning sharp steel and knowing how to keep it sharp was significant in itself. Some surgeons and physicians remain disdainful of the other to this day...
Apr 14, 2015 07:05:58 #
jerryc41 wrote:
What's the story with Dr. and Mr. when referring to doctors? I watch a lot of English movies and TV shows, and dentists are often called Mr., although not always. Last night, a policeman referred to a surgeon as doctor, and the nurse quickly corrected him saying, "It's Mr., and he's very particular about that."
Used to be you went to the barber to have surgery, which way back when was pretty much limited to lancing a boil or cutting out a big splinter. The "doctor" wasn't involved. So even as surgeons became more highly trained, you still have medical schools called "College of Physicians and Surgeons". So to keep with history, surgeons in the UK are referred to not as doctor but "Mr."
Apr 14, 2015 07:14:55 #
Donkas1946
Loc: Southern NH
Along the same lines I find that most chiropractors are called by their first name such as Dr. Roger etc. have always been curious about that.any ideas?
jerryc41 wrote:
Very interesting. Thanks.
Apr 14, 2015 08:39:53 #
Jackdoor wrote:
Luggerbugs is correct, though there is a bit more.... (show quote)
"Some surgeons and physicians remain disdainful of the other to this day." Same as in the U.S. Same as in the U.S.
Apr 14, 2015 08:56:04 #
RichieC
Loc: Adirondacks
Quacks... but never Mr. Quack, if being polite perhaps Dr. Quack. And if you get the mystery bill after a procedure, from someone whom never once personaly laid hands nor eyes on, nor spent a moment in the same room, but there are lots of zeros in the bill, *&^%$%#$#)* Quack!
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