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Help with my first moon shot
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May 24, 2012 12:37:30   #
bullfrogs Loc: Chico, Calif.
 
GloJo,
And All interested
A simple search on Google turned up this very good web site on Lunar Photography
http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/howtophoto/
I am not trying to get in your face at all but you made some major statements in your PM, to me, without substantiation, regarding hand holding
This webpage goes against what you claim point by point. Am I missing something here??
Could you please be more forthcoming with data. Others here have asked the same question. I defer now to the Managment??
Bullfrogs

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May 24, 2012 14:04:43   #
glojo Loc: South Devon, England
 
bullfrogs wrote:
GloJo,
And All interested
A simple search on Google turned up this very good web site on Lunar Photography
http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/howtophoto/
I am not trying to get in your face at all but you made some major statements in your PM, to me, without substantiation, regarding hand holding
This webpage goes against what you claim point by point. Am I missing something here??
Could you please be more forthcoming with data. Others here have asked the same question. I defer now to the Managment??
Bullfrogs
GloJo, br And All interested br A simple search on... (show quote)




Bullfrog,
I am slightly taken aback by this post as it comes across as you are disbelieving what I have said?

Do you seriously think for one nano second that I would be STUPID enough to post my pictures on a forum and then make silly, or false claims?

This is a forum that has contributors who have forgotten more than I will EVER learn. I am positive these folks would jump on ANYONE that dared to make untrue claims or submit images that did not correspond to what the author claims.

At no time have I EVER made any false statement or claim....

I tend to treat a pm as a personal message and those that communicate with me I tend to respect and treat as a friend plus I hopefully speak more informally.

This post however intimates that I have said something that is untrue and that is one step too far. This is the full and complete pm I sent you... It was wrote to someone I thought wanted a friendly exchange of information:

glojo wrote:

Hi Bullfrog,
I am VERY MUCH a person that simply enjoys taking pictures of what I see as opposed to framing something and then checking to ensure everything is just right before pressing the button. I say this because there are experts on this forum that would completely baffle me with their knowledge

Moon shots.
I was very apprehensive about taking pictures of something when it was dark... It just seemed 'weird' but I just set the camera to manual and played with the settings although I did leave the focusing on a specific setting.

The complete details of the image I have posted is 1/250th F8 and ISO 1600

This was with my old D200 and I had to tone the thing down in Photoshop as some parts of it were slightly burnt out.

Hand holding...
I have to be very honest here and I am 64yrs of age and have a very severe spinal injury and if I stand up and want to hold the camera I place the crutches under my armpits and then quickly raise up the lens. I am on morphine medication which helps to control the pain I am in but I am NO SUPERMAN... I have no secret formula for steadying my hands, it is just something I have had to do over the years. The lens is the VERY heavy Nikon 500mm F4 VR lens which means it has a stability feature but looking at the image of the Moon it was shot with my old Sigma 500 lens which was still VERY heavy but did not have any stabilisation.

When lining up the lens I ram my upper arm, elbow into my upper torso\chest, breath out and snap. NO WAY can I keep the lens held in position, but I can track peregrine falcon, plus fast moving fighter aircraft which rarely and expectantly over fly our property.

All I can say is it takes lots of practice but it is well worth the effort.

I am very sorry I have no secret answer or suggestions
br Hi Bullfrog, br I am VERY MUCH a person that s... (show quote)


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I have explained my settings to you and everyone else that has asked although I feel embarrassed doing this as I am NOT an authority on this topic, I am not an expert and my settings are done very much by trial and error.

I post my images to share the joy of looking at them. I am NOT a photographer, I have NEVER pretended to be and whenever I can I have been asking questions although I have also returned that compliment and answered when I have had something to add.

We can all learns lessons on this forum and I guess I have just learnt a good one.

Reply
May 24, 2012 15:24:43   #
glojo Loc: South Devon, England
 
I was not going to read the link posted by this person that doubted me but thought ... 'What the heck'

bullfrog wrote:
I am not trying to get in your face at all but you made some major statements in your PM, to me, without substantiation, regarding hand holding
This webpage goes against what you claim point by point. Am I missing something here??


Are you missing something??

glojo wrote:
This was with my old D200 and I had to tone the thing down in Photoshop as some parts of it were slightly burnt out.


This link that was posted was written in 2001 and I would very respectfully suggest that digital photography has slightly improved since that period.

However I quite clearly stated I used the following settings and my image was slightly burnt out

SPEED 1/250th F stop = F8 ISO = 1600

The site that...........

GOES AGAINST ALL MY CLAIMS RECOMMENDS THE FOLLOWING
SETTINGS


SPEED 1/250th F stop = F16 ISO = 800

Please note that I said my setting slightly burnt out my image.. The gentleman that produced those settings is no doubt an expert in their field, I simply live in a field and immediately stated I am NOT AN EXPERT..
The difference between the settings will in my humble opinion explain the damage to my image and again in my humble opinion confirms the truthfulness of what I had stated (NOT CLAIMED)


So to all you folks that feel I have deceived you with my trial and error settings I humbly apologise but are they so different???? Would you expect my image to be slightly burnt out when I am using a modern digital camera and this photographer may well have been using conventional film.

Yes I am annoyed but annoyed because I did my best at being honest and more to the point, trying to be helpful..

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May 25, 2012 04:28:07   #
Camerahand Loc: Huntsville, Tennessee
 
glojo wrote:
Camerahand wrote:
glojo wrote:
I am also learning this dark art and what surprised me was just how bright the Moon is. My experience is that we do not want to 'shoot' a Full Moon and when I get the opportunity I will have a go at taking more shots of this hunk of cheese.

This exposure is hand held with a speed of 1/250th second at F8. All I do is set the camera to manual and then fiddle to my hearts content. My own thoughts are my Moon is still burning out in a few places but if we all keep practising then I'm sure the rewards will make everything worthwhile.
I am also learning this dark art and what surprise... (show quote)


Now, THAT is a moon shot. I, too, am interested in knowing what lens you used. Very well done.

Burtron
quote=glojo I am also learning this dark art and ... (show quote)
Hi Burtron,
It was a Sigma 500mm lens but I always try to have a faster shutter speed than this one. 1/250th on that size lens and hand held is usually a non starter. I was just plain LUCKY, no skill, no bragging rights and no pretending I could do that day in day out.

Using a tripod is obviously going to be easier but we can only play with the cards we are dealt. My latest 500 lens has VR which makes things slightly easier but what I gain on the roundabout, I loose on the swing as the beast is slightly heavier than the Sigma. :(

Hand holding a camera is a skill and it must surely be all about firm or sturdy bases..

I am NOT in the corner that demands you do it in any specific way, or in any specific manner. To me it is all about getting a support as sturdy as possible, I jam the upper supporting arm against my body and use the upper arm area to support the lens making sure the camera is to a degree resting against my cheek! is this the correct way?? I have no idea but it works for me, but if folks have a better method then by crikey I would be the very first to try it.

When snapping the Moon I have used shutter speeds as fast as 1/1000th sec and they have still at times been too bright but I tend to go with at least 1/500th.

For those that have 300mm lens, have you tried using converters to get the subject closer? I have one for my camera but cannot get on with it and feel that what I gain in magnification, I loose in detail, but that is me.

This is my pathetic efforts at snapping the International Space Station

Hand held, but this time at 1/500th F8 and I see that the OEV was -2
quote=Camerahand quote=glojo I am also learning ... (show quote)


Thanks for the response, glojo. That is a very sharp lens.

I am also in my 64th year and know that we have to use the methods that serve us best.

The shot of the space station is amazing. I would never have thought to attempt such a shot. Lucky? I believe you make your own luck. Great job. Keep posting.

Burton (I misspelled my name the first time. :oops: )

Reply
May 25, 2012 05:32:25   #
glojo Loc: South Devon, England
 
Burton wrote:
(I misspelled my name the first time. :oops: )
Anyone that cannot spell their own name correctly probably has the same genes or should that be jeans as moi! :thumbup: :thumbup:

I think taking that shot of the space station sums up my style of photography..... I simply snap what I see and 'who cares what the settings are'

I must emphasis that I magnified the image just to be able to make out what it was. Can we track that thing using a tripod? I would like to think it possible and look forward to seeing what other folks can do.

I am still learning regarding Moon shots and all I am doing is passing on my experiences. (more fool me) When I am well enough to get outside and have another attempt, I will DEFINITELY be more aggressive with my light settings along with the ISO then see what the images come out like.

If you pm me your email address I will keep you informed, let you know my settings and hopefully we could compare notes? If you want I could send you copies of my offerings in a larger format of your choosing. (I am not able to get outside just yet so it will take a while) :)

The small 600 pixel offerings do not do any justice to those images although I must confess they are not brilliant.

Just a thought..... Would you like a larger copy of that picture I posted, it does look better than what is shown on this thread?

Reply
May 25, 2012 07:15:53   #
glojo Loc: South Devon, England
 
Pictures sent :)

I struggle with the search engine and would it be a consideration to have sections for all the amazing topics\images that we post to perhaps make things easier?

I have just found by accident some nice shots of the Moon where folks are exchanging information when I was struggling to relocate this thread. . :oops: :thumbup:

Reply
May 25, 2012 17:44:20   #
glojo Loc: South Devon, England
 
My wife tells me the Moon is now in its last quarter so here are more attempts and again if anyone that wants my settings then please feel free to pm me.... but please, no subterfuge, life is too short for petty games.

These shots were taken within seconds\minutes of each other and I just very slightly altered the exposure. Forgot to add that they are both hand held images





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May 25, 2012 18:00:32   #
bullfrogs Loc: Chico, Calif.
 
Glojo,
You can find the exact up to date phases of the moon here:
http://www.inconstantmoon.com/inconstant.htm
This is a wonderful site for all of us who want to study and photograph the moon. You can explore this webpage for everything you ever wanted to know about the moon including its music. Enjoy
It is a waxing crescent moon today.
Bullfrogs

Reply
May 25, 2012 18:09:14   #
glojo Loc: South Devon, England
 
bullfrogs wrote:
Glojo,
You can find the exact up to date phases of the moon here:
http://www.inconstantmoon.com/inconstant.htm
This is a wonderful site for all of us who want to study and photograph the moon. You can explore this webpage for everything you ever wanted to know about the moon including its music. Enjoy
It is a waxing crescent moon today.
Bullfrogs


My wife has just told me off because
Mrs Glojo wrote:
You NEVER listen to a word I say, I told you it was a waxing crescent Moon


I have replied to this post as I am guilty as charged.. I thought she said it was in the last quarter.

Reply
May 25, 2012 18:15:20   #
bullfrogs Loc: Chico, Calif.
 
I am a man I never consult a map either LOL
Bullfrogs

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May 27, 2012 20:06:14   #
ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.
 
Camerahand wrote:
Maybe someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe sometimes the edge does look blurry because the moon might be shifted just right for us to see some of the smaller craters along the edge.

Burton

The moon does show more to us than 50% of the lunar globe as the moon "nods" in a motion called "lunar libration." You can read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libration

However, it will not make the edge look "blurry" any more than the edge would normally look blurry. A blurry edge is caused by poor focus, aberrations in the optical system or a long exposure that catches the rotation of the earth.

The moon is approximately half a degree in diameter. The earth's rotation will move the moon 15 degrees per hour of 30 times the moon's diameter. (It's actually a bit more than that because the moon itself is moving east about 12 degrees per day - that's why it rises nearly an hour later each night.)

But the moon is bright enough and exposures short enough the earth's rotation should not blur the image unless you are using seriously long focal length lenses.

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May 28, 2012 03:48:14   #
glojo Loc: South Devon, England
 
We are talking about taking an image of something outside of our atmosphere and whilst in theory this should have no effect I can assure everyone it does. There will be nights when viewing through a telescope the planets will be pin sharp but on other occasions they will be 'yuk' (technical term)

I am not saying this may be the reason why our images sometimes appear more sharp than others but if you live in an area where smog or humidity might be an issue then do not immediately blame your photographic skills :oops: :oops:

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May 28, 2012 12:36:34   #
ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.
 
You are mostly correct, glojo. The term used by astronomers to describe the stability of the earth's atmosphere is "seeing." The other characteristic is how clear the air is and astronomers call that "transparency" for obvious reasons.

Seeing can be tricky. Humidity and smog can actually make the atmosphere more stable than less. The annual Winter Star Party in the Florida Keys takes place under high humidity conditions, but the seeing can be some of the best in the world.

The usual rule of thumb for maximum magnification for a telescope is about 50 power per inch of aperture. But during one opposition of Mars and fantastic seeing, I was using twice that - 100x per inch - on my old orange tube 8" Celestron and guys with bigger scopes were working at magnifications over 1400x!

The real question for this discussion is whether seeing can actually blur the sort of photographs most people on this site are taking and I think the answer is no. Seeing tends to blur small detail which is why deep sky observing (large angular diameter objects like nebulae, galaxies, etc) can be very good on cold, winter nights when the stars are twinkling like crazy. If you look at the moon under those conditions, you can actually watch the roiling of the earth's atmosphere as the areas of differing indices of refraction move across the face of the satellite.

Very few on here are working with high resolution photography and the image scale is large enough and exposures short enough that blurring should not occur. If you are looking for sub-arcsecond detail, then most of the guys are using video recording and image stacking which masks out atmospheric turbulence.

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May 28, 2012 13:51:04   #
glojo Loc: South Devon, England
 
ngc1514 wrote:
You are mostly correct, glojo. The term used by astronomers to describe the stability of the earth's atmosphere is "seeing." The other characteristic is how clear the air is and astronomers call that "transparency" for obvious reasons.

Seeing can be tricky. Humidity and smog can actually make the atmosphere more stable than less. The annual Winter Star Party in the Florida Keys takes place under high humidity conditions, but the seeing can be some of the best in the world.

The usual rule of thumb for maximum magnification for a telescope is about 50 power per inch of aperture. But during one opposition of Mars and fantastic seeing, I was using twice that - 100x per inch - on my old orange tube 8" Celestron and guys with bigger scopes were working at magnifications over 1400x!

The real question for this discussion is whether seeing can actually blur the sort of photographs most people on this site are taking and I think the answer is no. Seeing tends to blur small detail which is why deep sky observing (large angular diameter objects like nebulae, galaxies, etc) can be very good on cold, winter nights when the stars are twinkling like crazy. If you look at the moon under those conditions, you can actually watch the roiling of the earth's atmosphere as the areas of differing indices of refraction move across the face of the satellite.

Very few on here are working with high resolution photography and the image scale is large enough and exposures short enough that blurring should not occur. If you are looking for sub-arcsecond detail, then most of the guys are using video recording and image stacking which masks out atmospheric turbulence.
You are mostly correct, glojo. The term used by a... (show quote)
It is certainly an interesting topic especially as we have a nice observatory although my wife is the sole user. There are nights when to me the night sky looks beautiful but poor wife with her telescope will complain about these conditions and they do make it impossible for crisp peeping tomming...

But like you quite rightly point out she is using something far more powerful than a camera lens (12" telescope) I genuinely have NO idea of how these conditions will effect us mere snappers.

My wife tactfully suggest that the Keys would not be in her top tens locations of wanting to go the view the night skies :) My cousin however lived out there for many many years. I forget the name but it was one of the furthest from the US mainland and I am guessing those night skies would be amazing. :thumbup:

My thoughts on snapping the Moon is that we can easily use speeds of 1/500th and even 1/1000th which should eliminate any camera shake or blurring but if it is there and folks are using a tripod then is it the camera? Please note I am asking a question here and hopefully we are not hi-jacking an excellent thread? :oops: :oops:

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May 28, 2012 14:08:07   #
ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.
 
A 12" scope and an observatory! Tell your wife I think I love her! No offense meant. I have a 16" StarMaster dobsonian that is portable to let me get out from under badly light-polluted Atlanta skies.

Been going to the Winter Star Party for more than 20 years and when the seeing is good... You can see more detail on planets with smaller scopes than most any other easily accessible place in the world. Alas, the light pollution in the Keys gets worse every year, but it's still dark enough to see the Zodiacal Light in the west after sunset.

We have a fair number of Europeans who make the trek to the Keys. I met a lovely couple from Cardiff some years back down there and drove a Finnish couple down from Atlanta's airport. There is a large German and Dutch group every year. Good seeing and no snow! What more could you want?

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