RCJets Loc: Virginia

This may be a dumb question, and I have an idea what the answer may be.
OK, I'm shooting some very nice cloud formations against a nice blue sky, and think this would look great as a black & white photo. Would using a red filter for the shot and converting to B & W in PP, have the same effect as it would be shooting B & W film with a red filter?

Or, would converting a regular color shot to B & W in PP and just increasing the contrast have the desired effect?

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

You can simulate color filters by converting to B&W using the Channel Mixer. Then you still have the original in usable color. I'm sure there are tutorials on the internet showing how to do it.

Morning Star Loc: West coast, North of the 49th N.

Interesting.
I remember my Dad using a red filter with his B/W photography.
As to your question, do you have a red filter?
Just try it out, then come and tell us the results.

Rongnongno Loc: FL

I would go for a polarizing filter and or an orange filter...

I would work on PP too (Always do).

boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

I don't know but you might try shooting in monochrome(b&w) with the red filter and see what happens. Worst case- it wouldn't work. Nothing ventured etc.

RCJets Loc: Virginia

[quote=Morning Star]Interesting.
I remember my Dad using a red filter with his B/W photography.
As to your question, do you have a red filter?
Just try it out, then come and tell us the results.[/quot

I don't have a red filter for my DSLR but used it quite often on my 35 mm film camera. I was just wondering if I might need to buy one.

Thanks for your thoughts everyone.

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

First of all, there is no advantage to shooting in B&W on the camera. All that does is have the camera decide how to convert the image. And RAW is not affected by that setting.

I have heard lots of discussion about whether it is good to use a red filter or not. It is true you can adjust the picture after the fact to get a Black & White look that you like. But in reality, that red filter is totally shifting the color the sensors see. The blue and green sensors are exposed to light that has less blue and green content and the red is overjoyed with the additional red that it sees. I suspect, but haven't actually confirmed that the contrast is going to be greater than what I can get without using the red filter and just adjusting after the fact. Perhaps someone can say for sure.

I do have all sorts of filters - red, orange, yellow, etc. They were of great use with film cameras when shooting black & white.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

It is not a dumb question and it has probably occurred to a lot of photographers. I spent some time experimenting with the idea.

The short answer is that it is not worth the trouble to use yellow, orange or red filters with full-color sensors the way that we use them for B&W film. They still work for the Leica Monochrom for the same reason that we use them with B&W film - we have no other option. Using a polarizer also helps for color and B&W but not with very wide angle lenses.

A filter will alter the light before it reaches the sensor but that is not always a good thing. A red filter also removes some of the green and blue light and you need to add about three stops of exposure to compensate - about two for orange, almost one for yellow and more than one for a polarizer.

It's pretty simple to get the effect of a red filter on the relative brightness of sky and clouds by dropping the intensity of the blue channel during the conversion to B&W but you have a lot of other options by playing with the other two channels and it depends on what else is in the image besides blue sky and white clouds. The good thing is that you can see the effect as you are doing the conversion and fine-tune it - you can't do that with a glass filter.

The long answer is not worth spending much time on because it involves looking at the relative responses of different B&W films, some of which have more red sensitivity and some so much less that they are considered orthochromatic. Besides, not all digital sensors are equally responsive to red, green and blue. These colors may have to be adjusted in the software even before they are recorded in the raw file and that begins with the RGB filters in the Bayer array itself.

pecohen Loc: Central Maine

Topaz has their B&W plug-in now on sale and the evaluation copy I have seems quite good. I'm not sure it really gives me any additional capability than my editors but it does seem to make B&W conversion easier to control.

Rongnongno Loc: FL

Likely the only reason why one would want NOT to use color filters.

davidrb Loc: Half way there on the 45th Parallel

What happened when you tried doing this?

wilsondl2 Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska

My Nikon D7100 has settings in the B&W menu that give the affect of a red filter along with other filters. WEnt out and looked and not a cloud in he sky but will try it and glass filters to the next time we have clouds. - Dave

Jim 100 Loc: Everett, Washington

B&W film was overly sensitive to blue, so a yellow filter was used to obtain a somewhat normal looking image, red was used for a more dramatic effect. I would think that simply converting your color shot to B&W using the various controls will give you the look you want.

Anvil Loc: Loveland, CO

In my own, humble opinion, I think that using colored filters for black and white photography -- even on a DSLR -- is a valuable educational tool. Learning how to "see" in black and white is valuable, because it helps you learn the "value" of colors. Using colored filters while photographing in black and white reinforces this knowledge.

If your goal is to create a beautiful black and white photo, you probably should take the picture in color, and use your post processing tool to render it to black and white. If your goal is to learn about black and white photography -- and learn more about the color, in the process -- it couldn't hurt to shoot black and white, and experiment with colored filters.

For about a year, I used a Canon SX40 to shoot only in black and white, and I used a red, green, yellow, or orange filter, depending upon what I was shooting. My primary goal was to learn, rather than to create the perfect black and white shot. In that year, I gradually learned to "see" the world in black and white. That helped me "see" the color world, better. I think if I had skipped my black and white education, in lieu of using Photoshop or Lightroom to do the work for me, my pictures would probably have turned out the same, but I might not have had as clear an idea as to what was really going on.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Over the years I've shot a ton of B&W film and still have a full set of the filters used with it (various shades and densities of red, orange, yellow, green, blue).

I no longer use those filters with digital cameras. They simply are unnecessary. You can achieve the exact same effects in image post-processing, with the right software (I use Photoshop and Lightroom). Yes, some cameras offer these effects in-camera, too.

The only necessary filters today are:

Circular Polarizers - reduce reflections by "de-scattering" light... Can be useful for many purposes and does some things no software can do.

Neutral Density - may be needed to be able to achieve slow shutter speeds and/or large apertures in certain situations.

UV "Protection" - can be reassuring in certain situations. Also can subtly reduce atmospheric haze in some situations.

Virtually every other filter can be emulated in post-processing software... often better than can be done at the time of exposure.

Shooting digital I would only do my B&W conversions and apply software-based adjustments at home using my calibrated computer monitor in it's carefully controlled lighting environment... NOT at the time of exposure and relying upon the uncalibrated LCD monitor on the camera, viewed in various ambient light conditions.

If you do experiment with filters, don't forget to take your camera off Auto White Balance... otherwise it will try to "correct" away the filter's effects!