Native ISO question (Page 5): Maybe a good way to define it is the sensitivity the camera would have if the ISO amplification is set for unity gain. The ISO values we can actually...

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

oldtigger wrote:

what are the correct definitions of 'base' and 'native' iso?

Maybe a good way to define it is the sensitivity the camera would have if the ISO amplification is set for unity gain.

The ISO values we can actually select do not include one that is exactly at the native ISO, which isn't a very useful value for photographers. A little higher or a little lower works exactly the same, for our purposes.

Shutter Bugger

Apaflo wrote:

The User Manual does not say that.

The lowest ISO you can set the camera to may be 200, but that is not the "base" ISO or "native" ISO of the sensor.

Rubbish!

Crikey I know it has lower ISO settings than 200... Sheesh! 3 in fact: Lo 0.3, Lo 0.7 and Lo 1.

What do you think is the base ISO of a D700... and why do you think the default ISO of the camera is 200?

See below. (The D700 manual) If you read it carefully you will notice
it says if you shoot below ISO 200 contrast is lost.

The ISO 200 setting is (as close as you'l get to) the base (native) ISO of a D700 you goose!

(Download)

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Shutter Bugger wrote:

Rubbish!

Crikey I know it has lower ISO settings than 200... Sheesh! 3 in fact: Lo 0.3, Lo 0.7 and Lo 1.

Nikon says the D700 has an ISO range of 200-6400. The "Specifications" at page 431 in the User Manual, say:

"ISO 200-6400 in steps of 1/3, 1/2, or 1 EV."

It then goes on (emphasis added) to state,

"Can also be set to approx. 0.3, 0.5, 0.7 or 1 EV (ISO 100 equivalent) below ISO 200 ..."

Note that is "ISO 100 equivalent". The Lo and Hi settings are not an ISO, but a pseudo-ISO that has some of the same characteristics, but not all.

Shutter Bugger wrote:

What do you think is the base ISO of a D700... and why do you think the default ISO of the camera is 200?

Off hand I don't know what the base ISO of the D700 is, but it isn't 200. And ISO 200 is not "the default ISO of the camera". The ISO does not default to any specific value, there is a range that must be selected from.

Shutter Bugger wrote:

See below. (The D700 manual) If you read it carefully you will notice
it says if you shoot below ISO 200 contrast is lost.

The ISO 200 setting is (as close as you'l get to) the base (native) ISO of a D700 you goose!

Below ISO 200 means using a pseudo-ISO. ISO 200 might well be as close to the base ISO that a camera setting allows, but it is not the base ISO of the sensor.

oldtigger Loc: Roanoke Virginia-USA

jamesl wrote:

I have seen the term "native ISO" mentioned occasionally and wondered what it is. ... I'd appreciate any help possible.

here are a couple articles which explain why changing iso value may not be quite as simple as changing the other elements of your exposure triangle and why it can have such an impact on image quality:
http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/iso-speed-revisited
http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/exposure-with-red-cameras

Those using ND filters and those wanting in-camera single image HDR should find the articles of special interest.

Shutter Bugger

Apaflo wrote:

Below ISO 200 means using a pseudo-ISO. ISO 200 might well be as close to the base ISO that a camera setting allows, but it is not the base ISO of the sensor.

Floyd, tell me something I don't know.

And ISO 200 is not as close to the base ISO that a camera setting allows.

ISO 200 is as close to the base ISO that a D700 allows.

We should both put our egos aside now, and admit that A D700 will produce best results at the ISO 200 setting (light allowing) and that for all intents and purposes ISO 200 is as close to native for that camera as you'l get.

Alan.

Shutter Bugger

Apaflo wrote:

And ISO 200 is not "the default ISO of the camera". The ISO does not default to any specific value, yadda yadda yadda

Also my friend, ISO 200 is the default ISO of the camera.

If you own a D700 as well as your D800 (a darn good combination imho Bro) go to the shooting menu (on the D700 of course), scroll to "reset shooting menu", hit the OK button and the ISO defaults to 200... Check mate, Slam dunk, Game over player one, I like your style though Bro. :thumbup:... and that's not all.

You cited the D700 manual as saying "Can also be set to approx. 0.3, 0.5, 0.7 or 1 EV (ISO 100 equivalent) below ISO 200". My manual says exactly the same thing, however, the manual is wrong!

There is only 3 settings below ISO 200 not 4; 0.5 does not exist on my
D700... Just for the record.

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Shutter Bugger wrote:

Floyd, tell me something I don't know.

And ISO 200 is not as close to the base ISO that a camera setting allows.

ISO 200 is as close to the base ISO that a D700 allows.

We should both put our egos aside now, and admit that A D700 will produce best results at the ISO 200 setting (light allowing) and that for all intents and purposes ISO 200 is as close to native for that camera as you'l get.

Alan.

ISO 200 is not even the closest to the native ISO that can be set. But the point is that that is not the native ISO.

Nobody has suggested that a D700 does not produce its best results at ISO 200, but no matter how you want to slice it that does not make ISO 200 into the native ISO.

In fact the D700 has the same sensor as the D3, and the D3 has been measured as ISO 290 in 14-bit mode and 301 in 12-bit mode. The D700 may have differences in the processing chain, and hence just as the D3 has differences in it's two methods of processing the D700 may also be slightly different. In any case though, it's native ISO is not 200. (And it is also true that the camera can be set closer to it than 200. )

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Shutter Bugger wrote:

Also my friend, ISO 200 is the default ISO of the camera.

If you own a D700 as well as your D800 (a darn good combination imho Bro)

I've never owned a D700. I did own a D3 and after that a D3S, and if I wanted to own a 12MP FF camera I'd still have one of them. I gave them away to a couple of different young photographers that I mentor. The D4 is a much nicer companion to the D800.

Shutter Bugger wrote:

go to the shooting menu (on the D700 of course), scroll to "reset shooting menu", hit the OK button and the ISO defaults to 200... Check mate, Slam dunk, Game over player one, I like your style though Bro. :thumbup:... and that's not all.

If that is the way you define the camera's default, then that would be the default. I don't see that as a default setting.

Shutter Bugger wrote:

You cited the D700 manual as saying "Can also be set to approx. 0.3, 0.5, 0.7 or 1 EV (ISO 100 equivalent) below ISO 200". My manual says exactly the same thing, however, the manual is wrong!

There is only 3 settings below ISO 200 not 4; 0.5 does not exist on my
D700... Just for the record.

The manual is not wrong.

If you don't see the 0.5 and can only set 0.3 and 0.7 it is because you have the increments set to 1/3rd fstop. Change that to 1/2 fstop increments and you'll see the 0.5, but not the 0.3 and 0.7.

wannabe Loc: Baton Rouge Louisiana

jeep_daddy wrote:

A true native ISO is only about 4 feet tall when fully grown. The have blue heads when mature and they run around in grass that's about 5 feet tall. If you catch one they sometimes grunt but if squeezed too hard they squeal. Watch out though, if you are bitten you might not live to tell about it.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :XD:

Yep!!!!!!

Shutter Bugger

Apaflo wrote:

The manual is not wrong.

If you don't see the 0.5 and can only set 0.3 and 0.7 it is because you have the increments set to 1/3rd fstop. Change that to 1/2 fstop increments and you'll see the 0.5, but not the 0.3 and 0.7.

Ok, thanks for that.

I owe you an apology.

:thumbup:

Shutter Bugger

Apaflo wrote:

Shutter Bugger wrote:
go to the shooting menu (on the D700 of course), scroll to "reset shooting menu", hit the OK button and the ISO defaults to 200... Check mate, Slam dunk, Game over player one, I like your style though Bro. ... and that's not all.

If that is the way you define the camera's default, then that would be the default. I don't see that as a default setting.

Floyd,

I just had a look at Ken Rockwells "Nikon D700 Users' Guide",
he notes ISO 200 as that cameras default setting too. See below:

(Download)

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Shutter Bugger wrote:

Floyd,

I just had a look at Ken Rockwells "Nikon D700 Users' Guide",
he notes ISO 200 as that cameras default setting. See below:

Ken Rockwell is not a reliable source.

Still, it's a matter of what "default" means. That is a default in a way, but to my way of thinking it isn't a "camera default". It isn't what the camera is when it is turned on. The reset that sets it only sets it for certain conditions, and not for others. And so on. Of course Nikon labels a lot of things as the "default" when they mean "factory default" in that the camera comes from the factory with those settings.

Splitting hairs perhaps, but that is exactly what makes a difference when you get really picky.