JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

I don't understand why people don't realize that photographs have always been post processed. For most of the history of photography that was in the darkroom, and wasn't just control of contrast and highlight and shadow detail, but included things like solarization, posterization, and even the composite photographs the OP was talking about.

Composit photos were also created in large format cameras by masking part of the frame and shooting different subjects in different masks. Photoshop was designed to mimic the darkroom. Photoshop filters like Unsharp Mask were originally darkroom techniques. So PP is very much a part of "traditional" photography and always have been.

And as far as photos having to be marked "altered or unaltered" do you see a law to that effect? That's the only way you would get a lot of photographers, including myself, to do it. And where would the line be drawn? Would you have to reveal basic color correction and burning an dodging, or would only composite photographs have to be marked? Would all RAW photos have to be marked, since all of them require processing?

jim hill Loc: Springfield, IL

So sorry to have misunderstood your posts. I have been reading this stuff for way too long so it's best if I leave it lone and get back to what I do best - making photographs and all that entails.

I couldn't care less about what law enforcement is coming to or what multinational corporations are up to.

I was under the impression, maybe incorrectly, that the original post was which is better: Being a good post processor or being a good photographer. I thought the fellow was referencing the world of art. So excuse me if I am talking out of my league. I do most humbly appologize.

In the meantime, I would love to see your photographic work.
Do you have a site I may visit?

Zone-System-Grandpa Loc: Springfield, Ohio

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Hey, Jim, take it easy on yourself ! You did nothing wrong and you need to remember that each and every one of us often interpret OP's questions differently whereby we often resort to "reading between the lines" when we attempt to comprehend that which many our OP's had posed questions about.. AND, please try to remember that when someone finds it necessary to judge you, or correct you, or slap you upon your wrist, just remember that they are people who often are majoring in the minors whereas these people seem to lack the wherewithal to intelligently post responses having been given any careful thought to become meaningful anyway.

Enough has been said on the subject, I've taken your side, enjoy your night, and now it's off to bed !

jim hill Loc: Springfield, IL

OK Doug. I gotta remember that I am a visual person - not verbal. Maybe it's due to the constant screaming in my ears that I got in Korea in 1953. It's a wonder I can concentrate on anything.

You are, of course, correct. Time for bed.

Thanks for your understanding my point of view - as messed up as it may be. I gotta stop letting these guys get under my skin.

Zone-System-Grandpa Loc: Springfield, Ohio

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Indiana, my friend, please take it easy on our friend, Jim ! He was only attempting to address the OP's situation and if he had gotten off subject, I am certain that doing such was not his intent..

Anyway, this morning, I am not writing to you about the topic at hand but I am writing to you about a subject that you had written about sometime ago and that subject would be about how you once had written about the procedure that you had performed upon your heart.

To begin, I would like to ask you how you are getting along these days and are have you found that the heart procedure you had is working nicely for you ? Hopefully, it is and you are doing fine !

Nearly five years ago, it had been discovered that I had AFIB and a cardioversion was performed followed by a heart ablation procedure too, but both procedures had failed to correct the problem.

Two weeks ago, my cardiologist had finally discovered that I have a defective aortic heart valve whereby this coming Thursday, surgery has been scheduled to replace my defective heart valve with a porcine (a pig's) heart valve.
Needless to say, I have concerns about the success of the operation as well as I have concerns about surviving the operation, hence; I am asking if you have knowledge about this procedure or do you have friends who may have had this same procedure performed too ?

Thanking you in advance for your response !

~Doug~

frangeo Loc: Texas

Ansel Adams got a bad exposure for "Moose Rise". He fixed it in the lab. Please tell me the difference????

tdekany Loc: Oregon

I had a pretty good idea when I asked, but I did ask Mac to provide a few examples of his own shots. He kindly posted a few and I want to remain respectful, but why is it that these type of questions always come from individuals, who (to me) it seems can't even take a decent picture? Mac's weren't even in focus. :shock: :shock: :shock:

jim hill Loc: Springfield, IL

You are quite right. People who say things like that just don't know. I watched Ansel Make a 16x20 print of his "Moonrise Over Hernandez" It was a terrible 8x10 negative. He said it was lucky that he got anything at all as the sun was just about 5 minutes from setting and he had to lug his camera on top of his station wagon, set up the tri-pod and camera, focus, then frantically shove a film holder into the back of the camera. Guessed at the exposure. It was grossly underexposed.

When he printed this negative it was with his home made enlarger that was mounted horizontally on rails with a series of light bulbs for a light source. He could then turn on and off certain of the bulbs depending on which part of the negative he wanted to receive more or less light. Even with all that he still used enlarging tools for burning and dodging.

I was darkroom printer for Wynn Bullock for the final three years of his life. He is acknowledged as one of the masters of twentieth century photography. His negatives were some of the most difficult I have ever encountered.

For instance his "Stark Tree", an 8X10 negative, was so dense that it appeared to be absolutely black in the printing frame. It took me a whole afternoon of testing to determine which part of the negative was which and how much dodging and burning would be required to bring the photograph to fruition. And I spent nearly two hours practicing each move that I would need to make to print it. The next day I was able to make 15 prints by very diligent work through exposures that required 20 minutes total exposure time. After that I collapsed and didn't waken for fifteen hours.

Maybe some of you can make it 100% perfect exposure each and every time - but neither Wynn nor Ansel could. This from two true Masters of Photography.

blackest Loc: Ireland

http://www.wynnbullockphotography.com/featured/2013-02/images/starktree700pxl.jpg
1956
linked from
http://www.wynnbullockphotography.com/featured/2013-02/featured-1302large.html

After reading your description of how hard it was to print, I thought everybody would appreciate the result. The commentary from his daughter on that page is worth listening too.