Mr PC Loc: Austin, TX

Hi gang! Been using Lightroom for about 2 years now and I'm going through Tony Northrup's new Lightroom 5 ebook with lots of video tutorials in an effort to get a little more efficient. He makes a good case for converting proprietary RAW formats like NEF to DNG when importing, both for some size savings and for future compatibility. If I copy to DNG during an import and specify a destination folder, Lightroom creates DNG files. When I don't specify a destination folder, the imports show up as DNGs in LR, but the NEF files are still in the source folder. I've searched the computer from outside of LR and find no DNG files anywhere for that import. Where are these DNG files now? Have they increased the size of my catalog somehow or what? Thanks in advance for any help...

Mr PC Loc: Austin, TX

Oops, just got my answer...A folder at the same level as my original folder with the date of the import just finally showed up. Duh? Even computer guys have these moments!

Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.

Something I did when I went DNG.... I started converting on import, but I quickly saw that I was spending time converting files that were destined to be trashed due to bad exposure, bad focus or other unfixable problem, so I switched to import as NEF, go thru the bunch and delete any lost causes from the disk, then convert what is left to DNG prior to performing any edits.

If you get 200-300 shots from a shoot, convert them all before looking at them, it can take a long time to import and convert, but if you import, then go thru and eliminate the dead guys, you can save a bit of time on the conversion process. I know I am not good enough to have a 100% keeper rate yet.... maybe next week :)

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

There are all sorts of opinions on DNG. Personally I think that as long as the software I use can read the original NEF, DNG is not necessary. The 'future proofing' argument is speculative, since nobody can accurately predict the future. The best you can do is 'future resistant'. However, DNG may be more future resistant than NEF.

I also note that DNG comes in two flavors: one that compresses the RAW data for a smaller file size and one that embeds the original NEF file that produces a much larger file size. Since DNG ignores some of Nikon's proprietary data from the NEF file, I believe it's necessary to either keep the original NEF or use the DNG version that embeds it. So if you convert to DNG, don't discard your original files unless you're sure they include everything.

Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.

I keep hearing of proprietary data being ignored, but so far, have never found out WHAT that data is, and why it is important.

Any light you can shed?

BTW - it is your option to embed the NEF file, and to choose the compression method of the DNG file.

What I like is all my edits remain IN the dng file with the raw data from the converted nef, no pesky XMP files to worry about.

Mr PC Loc: Austin, TX

Thanks guys. I'm starting to think any space savings is not worth the conversion time. I do understand that the compression is supposed to be lossless, for what that's worth. I guess it all depends on whether you think Adobe or Nikon will go out of business first.

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

From http://photographylife.com/dng-vs-raw:
"DNG strips out some of the unrecognized meta data (such as Active D-Lighting and Picture Control) from RAW files, making it impossible to retrieve this data from DNG in the future."

Personally, I'm on the fence about DNG. There are advantages and disadvantages. The stripped data disadvantage can be addressed by embedding the original file.

I'm trying to go through various sources to compile a list of advantages and disadvantages. It's a spare time project so it'll take me a while, but has to be done before April, when the farm work erases free time for me.

Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.

But in reality, when shooting raw, that data is NOT needed....

For the most part PICTURE CONTROL is used for in camera JPG conversion. I set Picture control to neutral since on a raw it means nothing unless you use the NIKON raw converter.

Active D lighting - don't use it. Caused more troubles with raw conversion - again, more for use in NIKON conversion programs or in camera JPG conversion.

Still missing nothing of importance in going DNG, and gaining faster processing, fewer files to deal with and a slight space gain in smaller files.

BTW - I agonized for a long time about the dreaded "missing data", but could never lay my hands on what was missing that really mattered. I could not find anything so I went DNG and have made out fine since I shoot raw and do not use Nikon software for conversion.

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

I agree that the example data are not important to me, but the point is that if you're really interested in future resistance, you don't want to lose any information that could potentially be used in future software.

At my age, future resistance is a lot less important than it would be for young photographers. And my wife is an historian so I get the message "save the original" a lot, as well as emphasizing the importance of provenance.

Memory is cheap these days so I would have no problem saving both a DNG and a NEF.

Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.

There are plenty that save both NEF & DNG, that is not out of the question, and very valid.

With Lightroom you have 2 options - save the NEF as part of the DNG, making the file much larger (May slow down editing possibly) or have Lightroom save the NEF's to a separate folder on import - drawback it is not connected to the DNG file in any way, so file management is up to you.

I was saving my NEFS to an "originals" folder, but felt it was too difficult to manage as the size of the folder grew, so I went with convert from NEF to DNG, lose the Nef's.

The only info I had assumed that I was losing was focus points which Lightroom did not display anyway, but lo and behold the focus points are retained in the DNG and Lightroom can display them with a plugin - show focus points, found here:

http://www.lightroomfocuspointsplugin.com/

Works with Canon and Nikon cameras.

Mr PC Loc: Austin, TX

You turned me on to that plugin last year. It is real handy. It only works in Library view, but it can help you pick between two similar shots. Thanks again for sharing that plugin.

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

Initially I stored all the NEF files in one folder. It got unwieldy. So now I (or more precisily Downloader Pro) create a folder for my images and also a subfolder "RAW". The NEF files go into the subfolder. When I get through processing I generally create jpg's which go into the image folder. Sidecar files and PSD files stay in the RAW folder. The image folder contains just the final images (and the RAW folder).


Thanks for that. I'll check into it.

grusum

My file structure is all images are sorted by event/garden then year. Some folders may contain over 10,000 images taken over the course of a year.

When you double that number by adding .XMPs to the folder your OS must now deal with 20,000+ files.

Windows 7 64bit with impressive specs struggled with the enormous amount of files and data contained within that folder.

By converting during import to DNG, I have reduced the size of my folder by ~15% and reduced the number of files by 50% and can see an obvious improvement in speed in both LR and Bridge.

BTW, if you have existing folders with many RAW files, use LR to convert to DNG as it will remove the XMPs after conversion, will only convert RAW files and will not have to create standard previews after the conversion.

If you use Adobe's DNG converter stand alone program to convert your folders; you will then have to remove the XMPs yourself and when you import into the LR catalog you will wait while it builds standard previews.

FAR FAR faster to use LR to do the conversion of existing folders and from then on use LR to convert during import.

It works for me.

Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.

:thumbup: :thumbup: