SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Hogs, in my recent post about Composition Beyond 1/3's, It became obvious that we need to know how to get to the compositional stage in the first place. This post is intended to pick up where the other post left off.
So what are the basic mechanics of seeing what and how to include that in our compositions so that they are strong and successful and appeal to others?
Lets explore framing and cropping, either during the actual shooting process of the image or after the fact in PP. Is one of those better than the other.
Do we shoot our compositions very loose or very tight and are either of them right or wrong or better or worse with similar subjects?
Or is all of this just personal preference.
Some of the very experienced photographers here and indeed hopefully some of the Pros should have plenty to say about this and hopefully will, about what works for them and what doesn't and possibly why. I will post 3 shots in a separate post, again to make sure this is not removed.
Feel free to include any pics and or sources to support or demonstrate your positions and why they work for you.
There may not be any absolute rights and wrongs here but merely differing opinions.
We can of course include and repeat anything that was covered in the first 1/3's post and build on that, including pics.
Again, this is not to be critique as we already have that section but it may certainly include some analysis! ;-)
SS

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

I am posting 3 fireworks shots.
From a very tightly framed shot to a fairly typical shot, to one with a fairly complex environmental composition with a lot of story.
Are any of them more right than the others?
Or just different preferences in compositional tastes?
Lets explore how to arrive at each of these using framing and composition? ;-)
SS

PS, could one of you that are way smarter than I am, please post a link to the other post, that could possibly be useful.
Thanks in advance!

tight

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typical

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environmental

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Graham Smith Loc: Cambridgeshire UK

The link to SharpShooter's earlier thread on composition:

http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-269500-61.html

boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

The goal of a photo is to tell a story,sometimes the picture has to fill the frame and as such the "rules" must be ignored.I hope these two photos, which make more sense when viewed as a pair. They violate all the rules of composition, but I will leave it to others to judge

Picture of a picture

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picture of an artist

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boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

[quote=boberic]The goal of a photo is to tell a story,sometimes the picture has to fill the frame and as such the "rules" must be ignored.I hope these two photos, which make more sense when viewed as a pair. They violate all the rules of composition, but I will leave it to others to judg e For some reason the pic is too dark in this print. the original is much more properly lit. Sorry about that

Country's Mama Loc: Michigan

Personally I think the third one is the most interesting. It has the trails leading from the ground to the sky and the fireworks. It has the wonderful reflections in the water. Your eye moves easily around this version.
In the first, while it follows the rule of thirds it doesn't invite your eye to stay and explore.
The second is better than the first in that the fireworks are creating a loose diagonal across the image with the streamers leading your eye up into them.
How did I do?

Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN

There is no formula for "correct or right" composition. Photography is an art form not a math equation therefore there is no right answer. While there are accepted norms of composition they are not definite.

Composition for me occurs organically in the field. I look at the scene and think about the final image in my mind. I set up and look through the camera based upon my thoughts of the scene. If the lens or vantage point will not yield the image I want I change them.

Norms of composition do not teach one to see but to arrange objects in commonly regarded pleasing manner. Seeing is developed by not only studying other art form but also by looking closely at the world around you.

Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN

Composition is also dependent upon concept and context. in the photographs you have posted what is correct composition is not necessarily the question but rather what is important to the message of the image. Is it the forms of the fireworks or the relationship between the fireworks and the ground?

Dr.db Loc: Central Point, OR

SS - Your fireworks shots are a good illustration of "there's no right or wrong," that's for sure. Whereas I find the first 2 shots more simply "decorative" than "documentary," the 3rd shot finally offers a sense of scale, where we can see just how huge the fireworks are. I like that you got the whole scene including the lower fringe of smartphone shooters! - makes it the most interesting shot, imo.

I have always understood (assumed?) that "framing" and "cropping" refer to basically the same compositional function, with "framing" being the pre-shot analog of "cropping" in post. For me that would imply that framing is really the very first step in composition - usually even your camera settings are made after you know what you're going to shoot, ie., with framing already in mind, no? And while framing with digital is not only compositional, but an effort to hopefully gather as many meaningful pixels as possible, cropping is purely a subtractive process, wherein your canvas is expressly limited to the pixels already captured by the initial "pre-shot" framing.

Does this describe the difference accurately? (I hope... ;) )

ronwande Loc: Hendersonville NC

The first is uninteresting. It is too "sparse".
The second says "Wow! a fireworks display".
The third is interesting because you see the audience and the fireworks related to the ground.

This is NOT to say that the tight version is always wrong. With a different subject, the tight one might be best and the wider view the worst.

Graham Smith Loc: Cambridgeshire UK

You can frame a shot in camera to achieve the best possible composition given that the camera only allows a fixed aspect ratio. This ratio may not be the best for your image. Cropping in PP allows you to change the aspect ratio to one that produces an image with more impact and balance.

Uncropped

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Tight crop

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redhogbill Loc: antelope, calif

I am curious , for the reason to start a second post? what am I missing?

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Thanks Graham! :thumbup:
SS

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Red, you probably aren't missing anything.
The first post was dealing mostly with concepts but not so much the actual mechanics of assembling a composition.
In reality I was trying to bring light to concepts that I rarely heard mentioned here. In that way, those that were not familiar with them could become aware of how to use them and we could all then mention them freely, or at least those that actually premeditatedly were using them and others could then understand.
The hair on the back of my neck stands up every time someone say that some famous photographers work is CRAP, only because they do not understand photography. They don't have to like it, just understand it.

Here I hope we will explore the actual mechanics of how to assemble a composition and the process(s) that can be used. I think there are many for which these processes are not close to the same and are more interested in the actual physical aspect of the composition rather than the theoretical cerebral process of it.
Red, it makes some sense to me anyway and we will soon find out if it does to anyone else.
In theory there could be a lot of different audience, since it's, to me, actually completely different and in a way almost unrelated. Or maybe it's just BS! :lol:
Feel free to say so. ;-)
SS

Nightski

SS ... I like all three of these for different reasons. I like the abstract, artsy feel of the first, I like the shot of just the fireworks. I think you gave them enough negative space .. I'm not crazy about the white shoots coming up from the bottom. That's a shame. I love the third with the crowd. The whole big picture and very well done. It lets the viewer in on what it was like to be there.

I think there is no one right way to frame something. I think there are many creative ways to shoot the same subject. Many times there is one that is optimal .. but I guess it depends on what you are shooting the photo for.

The third shot might make a good cover for a promotional magazine for that city. The first one might be used as a stock background shot ..