WmLeeGriffin Loc: PA

I've had this happen once before . . . .

The bride & groom checked my web site, contacted me and asked for some specific info about wedding photography, then asked if I would handle their wedding.

The week before the wedding, (5 days prior to) the groom called. He asked if I was still going to shoot the wedding. "Of course, why wouldn't I" was all I could ask. The groom explained and aunt from the brides side wants to shoot the wedding was his reply.

I told him to choose who he wanted and he said they wanted me. However, the brides mother promised an aunt she could shoot the wedding.

I explained, I don't mind another photographer IF they want me there. If the aunt is a professional photographer make sure she doesn't mind 2 photographers.

I fly out of state, arrive a day early, get to the church an hour early, and meet the aunt about 30 minutes before the wedding. She is not a professional, just like to take pictures. She then tells me "How it's going to go". She explains just how she is going to handle the wedding. I'm very nice and suggested she consider a few other thing first.

I can work with just about anything, and this was 'work"!! The woman shot over my shoulder, would get the bride or groom busy with another shot if I didn't watch everything. She even got in front of me a few times to get a shot.

Jay Pat Loc: Round Rock, Texas, USA

I'll bet that was annoying.....
Based on the facts you presented, sounds like you did the right thing and just worked thru it.
Also, sounds like the aunt wanted to take shots for practice.
Pat

skidooman Loc: Minnesota

Sounds like you managed to stay professional through it. Whenever something like this comes up (and it does on occasion) I like to remind the B&G that they are paying for my services that day. Anyone or anything that prevents me from doing what they are paying me for is taking away from my ability to provide services they hired me for. Usually, that takes care of aunt or uncle that wants to practice their photography. However, some people can not keep their nose/camera out of others business.

I say well done to you. You were very accommodating.

greg vescuso Loc: Ozark,Mo.

I only shoot weddings for family or friends and a friend hired me to shoot her sons wedding . So the day of the wedding the Bride comes to me and says she wants her uncle to shoot some wedding party posed shoots with black and white film so I said ok and went and talked to the uncle and he let me know what he wanted to do. After the ceremony my wife and I set up a couple of the bridal party posed shots and took them and then turned it over to the uncle and he took his shots while I set up a one light set up for some bride and groom formals. If we were trying to sell prints from this wedding I would have told the Bride her mother in law hired us so we would be shooting all the formal shots. But since we were delivering a CD it wasn't a issue. That being said the uncle shooting some formaldehyde did cut into the amount of time we had with the bridal party for shots. I never did find out how they liked the uncles work, but I'm sure there was a great amount of emotional value to those shots.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

A year ago, we shot a traditional Vietnamese wedding (beautiful) the father of the bride refused to acknowledge me, even though we had been paid, and had all contracts signed. I met with the Vietnamese photographer that he had hired, and we just decided to work together as best as we could. It did work out OK, but it really is uncomfortable. The young guy actually ended up as a second shooter for us at a later wedding. Speaking to the bride and groom, they were embarrassed about her father, but I told them not to worry. There may be some extra time, but we don't want them to deal with any extra stress during their special day. Because of this, we booked several other weddings with their friends and family.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Well- it is said that all’s well that ends well as in the outcome of that Vietnamese wedding. Every good wedding photographer should be, above all, be hyper-considerate of the bride’s and groom’s comfort and total enjoyment of their wedding day and do everything in their power to insure that their wedding photography will be an enjoyable and trouble free part of their celebrations and at the same time insure that the results will be outstanding. No matter what goes down and creates problems and roadblocks for us; we want to surface as the good guys and this no doubt generates good will, recommendations, advertising and public relation that we can’t buy! Agreed? I agree with this concept. Causing stress and being unreasonable in any way at a wedding will buy a photographer negative publicity and a prima-donna reputation that can be extremely devastating to their business. For some reason it is true enough that bad news travels faster and wider than good news.

Being a firm believer in Murphy’s Law of wedding photography, I always examine certain pros and cons before I put a firm business policy in place. So… let’s examine the original scenario of allowing another photographer to shoot over your shoulder, get in our way or read us their riot act upon our arrival. We can say that being nice guys always pays off at the end of the day and we will emerge as the good guys OR do we take the approach that oftentimes “good guys (and gals) finish last”! We can say that we may have to take some punches or a little abuse when shooting weddings but “every cloud has a silver lining” and we will emerge with a stellar reputation.

Sadly enough, after over 5 decades in the wedding business and still loving it, I oftentimes have to take the reverse approach and report that “every silver lining may have a black cloud in the offing”. This is not paranoia or ego speaking but having an unwanted second shooter can lead to an unmitigated wedding photography disaster. Fact is that if that “photographer” gets in your way enough times for you to miss vital shots, distract the wedding party enough during formal shots and becomes a continual pain in the neck thus resulting a loss of quality and continuity in your coverage; YOU, the contracted photographer will be left “holding the bag”! Things like this have happened resulting in losses of reputation, disgruntled clients and even serious lawsuits for bad performance. Even if a difficult situation like this results in a halfway decent job and a 3 day migraine headache- who needs that?! Why do so many wedding shooters sabotage their own work and enjoyment of that work? Beats me! It’s like placing obstacles and booby traps in one’s own path!

I firmly believe that prevention is absolutely better than cure- if there is a cure! All my wedding contracts, therefore, contain a clause specifying that I (and my crew) remain the exclusive photographers at all weddings and similar events and no one else is to operate photographic equipment or lighting gear while we are on the job! We carefully explain the reasons for this to all of our potential clients and if they disagree, we simply and gracefully decline the assignment. This may sound harsh or egotistical but in actuality it is done on our client’s behalf to insure a smooth and comprehensive coverage of their day without interference.

Here’s my story and philosophy on this matter. In my early days in the wedding business I was sent out on a wedding assignment by my boss. Well- every form of un-cooperation occurred- the people were borderline insane. Everyone on staff was complaining; the caterer, the band, the florist- everyone! My assistant and I were perplexed and he suggested that we should just pack it in and go home- like some of the waiters had already done. I told him that his idea was all well and good for them but we had to come back with a job or the boss would murder the both of us and the customer still needed to be serviced regardless of the situation. I was kind of a Brooklyn “smart-ass” in my younger days so I went over to the bride and groom to issue a good “what for”! I looked the groom straight in the eye and said “I forgot something at home”, he inquired “what’s that”? I answered “I forgot to stay there”! I then explained that he was sabotaging his own investment in his wedding photography and was flushing his hard earned money down the toilet. The bride agreed. He called off his nutty crew of amateur photographers, asked the folks to calm down and we finished the reception candids in a good way. The hall keeper and the florist were cooperative and felt for us so after the reception was over they kept one of the nicer rooms open- spiffed up the flowers and we spent an hour and a half shooting the formals and bridal party groups that were impossible to do beforehand.

After the job was over I though back to my wisecrack about “forgetting to stay home” and realized that I don’t want to take on jobs where there is absolutely no respect for professionalism, zero cooperation or people intent on lousing up their own photographer. This does not mean that I have zero tolerance- I actually have infinite patience, I can roll with the punches, change gears at any time during a wedding, put up with changes of schedule, handle drunken guests, fainting brides, nervous hung over grooms, intrusive in-laws and out-laws and late hairdressers and makeup artists. In my long career I have experienced and worked my way around power failures at the reception venue, a fire in the kitchen, a bride’s zipper ripping out of her antique wedding dress (just as she was dressing for church, the family cat clawing at the bride’s gown and two occasions where a family member came to their untimely demise during the reception. I even started a wedding where the groom never showed up!

I can handle many unpredictable happenings but I don’t want to start off with a deficit. This does not mean that I am going to chase away family members with their phone-cameras outside of the church or confiscate grandma’s camera- nothing of the sort! I just want the right to control, on behalf of the bride and groom, potentially bad situations that will seriously hamper my work. Oftentimes couples will advise their overzealous amateur friends and relatives to leave their cameras at home and just come to celebrate, eat drink and be merry as honored guests.

Getting back to the concept of getting good PR: I never want to be placed in the position of the “policeman or bogyman” as a wedding photographer. That is why we like to work out plans as much as we can in advance when making the arrangements. My self and my crew often receive compliments from guests, bridal parties, families, catering managers and church and synagogue clergy and officials on how smoothly and quietly we get things done. The clergypersons like the fact that a “paparazzi” of amateur photographers are rushing the altar during sacred passages of the ceremony when rings are exchanged or benedictions are being preformed and we can capture all of these evens from a distance with longer lenses.

Legalities aside, there are the common sense factors. Are their two caterers at a wedding reception, will Grandma go into a hotel kitchen and tell the chefs and cooks what to do, will there be two DJ or bands, two florists???? Not usually! Why should the be two photographers from different companies or sources?

Businesswise: I do not do gun and run and shoot and burn jobs. All my contracts contain prints and albums so I don’t worry about print orders. For those who speculate on print orders how can you expect DECENT print orders if someone else is shooting over your shoulder for free? This gives new meaning to the word “counterproductive”! If you’re not in business- what can I say? If you are in business, unless your shooting and burning fee including of all the files is sky high- how can you increase your sales and profits- isn’t that what business is all about? How can you benefit from your hard work?

OK folks: Opinions, arguments, agreements, thoughts, comments; let’s get to the crux of the matter and stimulate some discussion.

Ed

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

We all have our preferences and I always make sure the B&G know mine. I tell them I shoot with a second all the time and I do so because we know how to work with each other, when a family member comes into the picture that whole philosophy goes out the window.

However, it is our job to make sure the B&G have the least stress possible on their big day. Normally it isn't the B&G who demands a family member to be able to shoot stills on the side, it's mom or dad, to eliminate stress for the B&G I'll accommodate.

However, I do not allow a family member to shoot over my shoulder, in face I make it very clear that no one else can fire away while I'm taking posed shoots. I do make it very clear that they will have a chance to snap. I'll compose, shoot my stills and then side step out of the way and allow family members to fire away for about 20 seconds, I then move on to the next setup.

I do it this way to make sure the subject(s) are looking into my camera not being side tracked by another family member with their cell phone. This also allows family to snap pictures and keep peace with all.

I can't tell you how many times I've gone to a wedding and the uncle shows up with a Canon 5D III and a 70-200. I'll ask him what settings is he using and he'll say he shoots on auto :shock:

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

Very good points. We do have it in our contract as well that we are to be the only photographers, and we make sure only the wedding party and family are around for formal shots, and we have our ways of making sure people don't have time to be snapping. (and will also just tell the wedding party that we've got the shots, so they don't have to) That is why we actually met with the other photographer, normally we would have walked away, but we really did want this wedding, and the Vietnamese photographer was very kind and understanding, and was even willing to bow out, since we were hired first. After talking to him, he didn't cut in front of us for shots, he worked completely independently. He didn't even try to take any of the formal shots, we worked it out that he was basically a 3rd shooter, and we gave him assignments.

Generally, the we talk to the wedding official about making an announcement about turning off phones, which helps a LOT with people shooting during the ceremony. We do a lot of reinactments of the special events during the ceremony, such as putting on the ring, a nice shot of the B&G with the pastor from a view that we couldn't have gotten during the ceremony without being pests and running all around. We even reenact the kiss. We get photos as it's happening, but the best shots, and the ones that sell are usually the ones taken after the ceremony when we can bring out a small ladder and get the exact angles we want.

The "run and gun" shooters out there offering $200 weddings, are cutting into business, but in the end, the people who think that is a "deal" are not really the ones we want as clients anyway.

xxredbeardxx Loc: San Clemente CA.

This is over the top. It seems like every wedding I
attend there's several people with point and shoots and phone
cameras that keep getting in the way of the paid photographer.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
It's good to talk about this prior to the wedding
with the B&G.

Bobbee

this happened a couple of weddings ago. This cousin was in front of me all the time. When I step up, I am used to people moving out of my way because of what I am there to do. Most of the time, people are well mannered. Not this woman. So I snapped on my 70-200 lens at times during the wedding, took some REALLY unflattering pictures of her doing all sorts of strange things when she thought nobody was watching. After I edited all the photos I put them, and the unflattering pictures in the online gallery where every guest had access for viewing. Don't mess with the photographer.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

That sounds like something I'd come up with........but never have the guts to do. I did have a wedding where a "friend of the B&G" was the videographer. After several shots of trying to photoshop him and his stupid Harbor Freight flashlight taped to the top as a video light, I just left him in the rest of the shots, so the B&G got to see why I was so frustrated with him. I actually came out ahead, because they paid me for the rest of the photos that they wanted me to "remove" him. I guess, I should have given him a commission.

Bobbee

I have 'normally' avoided this. The grooms mom at the last wedding was Crulevilla. What an uppity pain in the butt she was. I took the pictures, but like the B&G so much I deleted them. You can always pack a gun, doesn't mean you have to shoot someone. LOL

Jay Pat Loc: Round Rock, Texas, USA

That's way to handle it!
Pat