E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Hi wedding gang. I am pleased to see a wedding forum here! I did my first solo wedding 54 years ago. I started out in New York City where I began working as an apprentice/gofer/assistant and darkroom cleaner. Nowadays my business is not 70% commercial, industrial and corporate portraiture but I still do weddings. My family, colleagues, employees and friends think that I do some pretty wild and crazy things, the first of which is that I still shoot wedding at the age of 70! I work with a crew of at leas 2 assistants, I use multiple flash lighting when flash is required and I light large venues with up to 7 lights on radio synch (insane or what?)! I am old but I am not entirely old school. I have some controversial ideas about the state of wedding photography as it now stands.

Question is: Do y’all think I would be of any use to this group? I have lots of experience to share, I write long posts and I have a crazy sense of humor! I scanned around the entire site, posted a few things and wouldn't mind hagin’ around here every now and again. Anyway- I could not find “geezer forum” to post in!

Ed

Jay Pat Loc: Round Rock, Texas, USA

Heck yes!!!! Jump in anytime.
This sub forum is getting a slow start. One has to find it first, then subscribe to it. I think it should be right next to the photo gallery for all to see. No subscription, needed.
But, I am a mere, snap shot guy....

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

:thumbup: Hey Pat!

Thanks for your reply. I did not even know there were “subscribed” forums here on this site and I have now been around for a few weeks. I suppose if the wedding forum is somewhat hidden away it may never get off the ground and that would be too bad.

On the other side of the coin, I don’t really know how many photographers
would be interested in this part of the craft. Much depends on their geographic location, socioeconomic conditions in their area and their own attitude on the subject. In some places wedding photography is still a lucrative full and part time profession while in others places the “profession” is at an all time low due to market changes. Some photographers know that wedding work requires a high level of skill, talent and stick-to-itiveness and because of lack of knowledge and/or snobbery, some photographers espouse that wedding photography is the armpit of the industry when compared to the commercial fields.

Since I am new to this site, I don’t even know who the moderators or administrators are. I don’t know if is “cool” to “advertise” this sub-forum in more popular areas of the site in order to raise interest in it. I don’t even understand why it is a SUB forum! I mean it’s one hell of an interesting and multifaceted discipline with many skill sets and areas of art and creativity involved. What with so many photographers here spending all kinds of money on expensive equipment, one would thing that perhaps that some of them would like to cash in by learning the necessary skills and earning some MONEY with their gear. I am sure, there must be a few aspiring pros and established ones who would be interested in getting involved here!

Even if folks come in here and never attend a wedding as the hired professional photographer, there are so many subjects involved in good wedding photography that it is a learning experience in itself. We deal with lighting, formal posing, fine portraiture, finite flash techniques, out-of-doors shooting issues, flash fill, reflector usage, background concepts, candid shooting, photojournalism, dynamic range, gun & run techniques, improvising under limited conditions, gear, optics, lenses, anticipating action, business principles, contracts and office procedures, people skills and a whole lot more! Even human stuff; religion, tradition, culture, family, relationships, love, romance and even hate (believe it or not)! If you don’t emerge form this kind of study as a better photographer you can still become a good amateur psychologist, anthropologist or at least a good comedian.

I have enlisted few of my friendly competitors, cohorts, and antagonists in the end of my business as assistants at big weddings assignments and the all come home totally exhausted and the common complaint or comment, literally, at the end of the day is “you gotta be made of iron to do this right”! My reply is “not if you know what you are doing”!

So whatdoya think!

Ed

Jay Pat Loc: Round Rock, Texas, USA

Other sub forums have taken off and some are a little slow. Just depends on the interest.

As far as I know, the Admin is the head person. The new forums seem to be managed by one up to three members.

As to advertising, I just welcomed a new person and encouraged them to check out all the other sub forums and included a link. No one has told me not to do that, yet....

I'm not doing weddings anymore (I did a few, part time). I still enjoy the viewing images and I would encourage those interested to try it. As long as everyone involved knows what's going on (like skill level).
I always enjoyed the challenge of trying to get all the shots. I learned real quick, things may not go as planned.....

I didn't charge much as my skills were not great. I never had a complaint. Never any problems. It just got to where I wasn't enjoying the work like I did (a few aches and pains).
So, I stopped. I did pay for some camera toys.
Pat

skidooman Loc: Minnesota

Anyone that is not interested in the latest and greatest or the "old school" techniques is missing out in my opinion. I for one welcome any and all info that one is willing to share. I would be the first to admit I don't know it all, and I am always willing to learn more. The list for wedding photography seems endless, so bring on the information :)

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

Howdie, and to quote Pat "heck yes!!!" Welcome aboard. I'm the moderator for this section, but would gladly accept help. I did ask the administrator about getting included in the daily digest, and we need a "couple hundred" subscribers before we get bumped up to that status. He just suggested that we "find a way" to advertise to get others to subscribe. Whenever I do see a post where I think it has even a remote chance of being kind of, sort of, a little bit, geared toward anything that remotely resembles wedding photography, I suggest that the people I'm replying to, subscribe.

Not sure if you've noticed, like I have, that there isn't really a great "FREE" wedding photography forum.

In a lot of posts, we kind of get pushed off as weirdos. ("that's why I'd never shoot a wedding") or my favorite comment in another post was where someone said "not real professional photographers, more like wedding photographers"

That's why I'd love to get this section really built up, and people with your experience would be an awesome addition. I've only got about 32 years experience, so I definitely bow to your experience.

(by the way, I tend to write long replies too :-) )
bk

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

:thumbup: OK Gang! I’m up for a challenge! I do, however, feel that a wedding forum should be a major part of the site. Not doing so implies that it is a second rate kind of a specialty of little importance while in reality it is an industry onto itself. Well then- if we are gonna attract 100 photographers, I think the first thing we should do is write a few gang-buster tutorials or articles and then begin to invite others to subscribe and have a look at what we have in store for them. Just asking them to come in to a bare bones forum just to populate the place probably won’t get too many folks excited and if they show up and there is little of interest, they might not come back!

Yes! I have heard all of the negative nonsense about wedding photography but most of it comes from folks who don’t even know what they are talking about. When “photographers” tell me that the would not ever consider shooting a wedding (in a negative or condescending manner) I often respond by telling them that they are unknowingly doing a valuable service to many brides and grooms by NOT showing up at their weddings with such an uninspired attitude.

I feel very strongly that fine wedding photography of many styles is still alive and well in certain quarters. At the same time, I am somewhat conflicted and think that certain aspects of the craft are quickly “going to hell in a hand basket”! In some cases it has been destroyed by its own practitioners.

I realize that every wedding couple can not afford the services of a long experienced wedding photographer and that many amateurs are taking on wedding assignments. I also realize that every aspiring wedding shooter has to start somewhere and somehow! I have heard and appreciate all of theses positions. I do not, in any way, resent amateurs for getting into what was formerly in the exclusive domain of professionals, however, I do sincerely, emphatically and ethically feel and think that anyone taking on wedding assignments should first achieve a decent and reasonable degree of professionalism, savvy and knowhow and continuously strive for improvement along the way. I can live with any amateur photographer dabbling in any kind of “professional” work but I deeply feel that wedding photography is somewhat sacrosanct. Disappointing a bride with inadequate coverage or botched work is cruel and irresponsible. This does not mean that one needs to be an award winning photographer right from the get go but every bride and groom are entitled to a good clean, well exposed and composed set of photographs with good expressions, nice lighting and all the “must haves” of their wedding day story. A good online forum dedicated to the art, science and business of wedding photograph is a great place to get started- a valuable resource where access to pros can teach about things that are seldom discussed (if at all) even in classrooms, books and pre-recorded tutorials.

My own teaching method usually begins with aptitudes, attitudes, ethics, people skills and business acumen before talking about investing all kinds of money in equipment, supplies and setting up a business. Some say that wedding photography is not “rocket science”- well of course it’s not but it requires many skill sets, aptitudes and mindsets that many rocket scientists are not endowed with. I have even seen accomplished photographers in other specialties just about “fall apart” at a wedding assignment. I have had some of my experienced commercial and fashion collogues assist me at weddings and they marvel at how I can gun and run and still address dynamic range. After all we are dealing with white wedding dresses and black tuxedos in just about every shot- and all of this without all kinds of meter readings and tests. Producing high quality images in very small windows of opportunity under tight schedules is an art form in itself.

As I have alluded to previously, even if folks who join in here but never photograph a single wedding; their are so many skill sets to study, discuss, learn, appreciate and master that can be applied to many other aspects of photography. We may even end up with a few converts!

So what do y’all think- am I seriously over killing the subject. Well if we shoot for the impossible we may land somewhere in the middle and end up with a decent wedding forum. Can we consider this an article?

I’ll plan some more and post them ASAP!

Ed

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

Ed, exactly what I was envisioning. I agree with what you are saying, and that's why instead of trying to talk people out of wedding photography, I take on as many apprentices as I can. Yes, I'm training my future competition, but I won't be around forever. I think it really is a disservice to the Bride and Grooms of the world, to not do everything possible to make sure that there are plenty of well trained photographers out there.

I have started trying to write a tutorial, actually I've started it a few times. The main problem I run into is trying not to make it too overreaching. Unlike other areas (I also do portraits) where you just have to understand one or two basic skills, then just have an eye. During the weddings, you need to be a psychiatrist, expert on light, wrangler, peace maker, police officer, and often do the job of the wedding planner, even if they have one. etc. etc. Every time I try a tutorial on one aspect of wedding photography, I end up blabbering on about too many different subjects. I'll keep trying, but if you are better at being focused (I know my faults) jump in and give us that killer tutorial. If nothing else, once we see how it's done, maybe we can all jump in and kind of follow your template.

I would love nothing more than to see this grow into the premier wedding photography forum on the net. I'm not vain enough that I ever wanted/expected to be the forum moderator, so if others want to volunteer to help, or even take over, I'd be happy. I believe in this business, and am excited to see a great group of like minded people. Those that are, were, want to be, or are just interested in wedding photography need to be represented out here.

Thanks again Ed.
Bob