viscountdriver Loc: East Kent UK

I have been giving some thought to the alleged torture of Islamic detainees.
I am not blaming US policy as I an sure UKs M15 was somewhere involved.
In view of the massacre of children in Pakistan is there, in fact a need for this or are we better than that?
My own view, for what it is worth that these Islamists are so evil that the only way to deal with them is to play them at their own game.

ottopj Loc: Annapolis, MD USA

You mean meet them at their level? Let's see what the Pakistani police/Gov't does besides talk

Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM

I don't disagree.

I also fail to see what we did as "torture" for two reasons: first, all of our operators go through the same techniques in training, and second, it was all legal.

Now, for me the question is morals, not legalities. There I have gone through the same thought process you did, and I came down on the side of the fanatics having changed the equation of what is and isn't moral.

hamtrack Loc: Omaha NE

Those who are beheading innocents, crucifying anyone who is not of Muslim faith, should not be classified as human beings. If one encounters a mad dog frothing at the mouth, there is no redemption for the beast, they need be dispatched on the spot.

Leon S Loc: Minnesota

The rules of warfare are covered by several conventions, however to save lives of innocents everything changes. To save my family, troops, or fellow citizens from dirt balls, I can't guarantee what methods I would use to get what information I need to protect them. All governments operate this way. The proof being that military organizations teach all forms of interrogation to their troops. If they didn't intend to use that training, they wouldn't teach it.

UXOEOD

Hillary Clinton beleives we should empathize _with our enemie.

Representative Jackie Speier says we should apologize to our enemies.

Strange, since that horrid attack on the school by the Taliban in Pakistan they have both been rather quiet.

boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

I think there were only about 6 people who were subject to Enhanced Interrogation Techniques. Think about this. If Diane Finestien'child was in that school in Pakistan where 130 kids were sluaghtered, and there was a terrorist captured that knew of the impending attack, would she insist that we would ask him politely or pull out his fingernails to get advanced knowledge of the attack

Twardlow Loc: Arkansas

Afraid you have not thought this through. If you look up a definition of torture in the dictionary, you will find something like this:

torture: the practice of inflicting physical or mental pain on a helpless subject to force him to do or say something. There is usually a mention of the enjoyment of the torturer.

There is absolutely no doubt that we adopted torture as a practice. And cheney's claim that being in a plane that's about to crash, or a building that is about to be destroyed, is NOT torture, unpleasant as it might be. That is being under attack.

Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack, a dastardly surprise attack, but it wasn't torture. That came later.

Also, our operators do not undergo torture as you say. Special forces do receive training dealing with waterboarding, but they do not spend hundreds of hours confined to an incredibly small box, nor stand naked, hands cuffed over their heads for literally hundreds of hours; they do not experience being shackled naked in temperatures that eventually k**l them; they are not violated rectally; they are not force fed through their noses.

Let me point out also that the activities were NOT legal! Bush/Cheney received legal opinions from ambituous attorneys--and they, knowing what was expected of them and their hoping to improve their own standing within the government does NOT make the activity legal.

Attorneys are advocates, and will advance any argument for the right price; they will advance anything. Only a judge and jury can rule upon whether a specific instance is legal or not.

Ultimately it is the Supreme Court that decides.

We are parties to conventions (which have the force of law) which dictate that we will not indulge in torture, that we will prosecute anyone who does indulge in torture, or we will extradite them to a nation who will.

The battle that cheny is fighting is to deny torture, because acceptance of the term would expose him to international arrest. (If only it would happen.)

Additionally, let me add that the actions of Islamist are a reaction to our provocations. We posted troops and weapons in Saudi Arabia, which was a great insult to Islam, and they reacted by 9/11.

Our attacking Iraq, and abusing prisoners is the stated reason ISIS exists.

Horrible as both of these are, they are our own fault. We sow what we reap.

We done it our own self.

I also point the the fanatics cannot change our morality, only their own; only we can do change our morality, and we have; we adopted theirs. Shame on us.

I know as a card carrying Republican and Conservative, you will not accept any of this in spite of its t***h, and in spite of the fact it is all verifiable.

Just remember, Thinking is the hardest thing, and merely vomiting someone else's talking points is not thinking.

You choose.

UXOEOD

Honestly, Twardlow, has ANYTHING, ANY ACTION, the USA has ever done, in your honest opinion, with our military strength been good, for the betterment of mankind?

We won freedom from a tyranical dictator, King George.
We insured the world freedom of the seas, twice, the War of 1812, and the First Libya War.
We ended s***ery in our nation.
We stood with France and England to stop Germany overrunning Europe in the early 1900's.
We ended F*****m, and the threat of N**ism.
We freed the Pacific Rim from Japan's domination.
We kept South Korea free.
We liberated Kawait.

Obviously I could continue to list the blessings granted the world thru the effort and sacrifice of the US military, but I beleive I have laid my foundation.

To repeat my question, in all history since our foundation, do you find any of our efforts and sacrifices to be honorable and just? If not, what great self hating mental illness do you harbor to continue to live here, and support what you see as evil with your taxes? In my humble opinion, you and the rest of the world need to honestly review history, then walk down to the nearest US Veteran Cemetery and kiss the very earth covering those heroes' graves in gratitude.

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

Does it matter to those who favor torture whether it actually works or not? Have lives been saved by information obtained by torture?

UXOEOD

To liberals, the success or failure of thier programs don't matter just the proper politically correct intent. Foe example, the War on Poverty, has not worked, yet it is wonderful because of its intent, warm fuzzy efforts to give away other peoples money.

Enhanced Interrogation Techniques may not ALWAYS work, but the intent has always been the protection of innocents people from terrorist acts.

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

I'm the one asking if torture is successful or not. If we are to use morally questionable techniques, they had better work. Again I ask, have lives been saved from terrorist attacks because of information obtained by torture?

UXOEOD

I h**e to confess this, but interrogater have no magic globe prior to using their techniques if they will or will not work. They do the best they know how, and pray for success. However, UBL wasn't discovered by politely asking Pakistan coffee shop patrons.

Yes, on occassions it has saved lives!

Twardlow Loc: Arkansas

Absolutely agree! But that doesn't justify the deaths of half a million Iraqi citizens at our hands, or torture.

Twardlow Loc: Arkansas

Are you so concerned about saving the lives of innocents that you deplore our k*****g of half a million or a million innocent Iraqu citizens?

Torture is wrong, in all times, at all places, always. Period

And it creats monsters in the form of the torturers; there is always a price.