clare 72

Hello,
Let me start by saying that am a fairly new but keen photographer.
I have about 1000 gbp to spend on a new body / lenses
I am used to canon so I would like to stick to Canon.
I had the T3i until this summer and then swapped for the 5d mark1, which I don't feel any benefit of (maybe I should, but I don't) I have a canon 50mm 1.8 also the canon 18-55 that came with the t3i (not compatible with the 5d)
Part of me just wants to go back to the t3i and just spend my budget on better lenses but I have read great things about the 70d. Possibly with sigma 17-50 2.8 to go with my 50mm prime. I also like the look of the EF 85mm 1.8???
Has anyone used the T3i eos 600 and the 70d to give me an idea of the benefits of the 70d. Also any advise on whether to put the extra couple of hundred on lenses or body??
I would like to have the sharpest possible portraits at lower apertures. Currently I find the images are not pin sharp.
I enjoy photographing families, children and portraits, almost always natural light.

Any one with any advise greatly appreciated, I want to make the right choice as I won't get the opportunity to splash out on camera equipment again for a while!

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

Amateur reply with good intentions - If your main interest is portraiture then the 85mm 1.8 lens would be the most suitable of the lenses you mention. In fact would probably ideal. :)

donrent Loc: Punta Gorda , Fl

You had a very good camera - the T3i....

The BEST thing you can do with ANY camera is have the BEST lenses..

The NEXT best thing is knowing your camera........

Why the 85mm ? Its so close to the 55mm... Personally I'd go to the 1.4 50mm, then for a walk-a-round lens an 18/135mm and then maybe a 70/210mm w/ an extender of maybe 1.4...
Just my thoughs....

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

Why the 85mm? with an APS-C crop 35mm equivalent is 120mm. I understand that around 100mm is considered best for portraits.
I thought we were only talking about portraits for the moment.

OP said about his current lenses, including the 50mm:
"I would like to have the sharpest possible portraits at lower apertures. Currently I find the images are not pin sharp.
I enjoy photographing families, children and portraits, almost always natural light."

dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia

Have you had the camera and lenses checked for focusing issues?

bigtex2000 Loc: Arlington, TX

I have the T3i and the 85mm f1.8 lens, and I can tell you the lens is great, BUT with the crop sensor on the T3i it is a little too big for portraits unless outside. I use mainly the 50mm f1.8, and it is much better suited for indoors in limited space. As far as an everyday all around lens, I have been extremely satisfied with my Tamron 18-270mm. rarely take it off my camera when out and about. Good Luck!!!

clare 72

Thank you for all for your input. As I said I am pretty new to photography. I was really happy with the T3i, but as it was my first real camera I didn't really have anything to compare it to. I traded it with a friend who was not doing so much photography any more for her 5d mark1. The images are good, but the camera is older and I don't feel the pictures are as crisp as they were with the T3i. So I am definitely not keeping the 5D. So as I am changing body I need to decide whether to get another t3i which is very affordable or 70d and then that will help me decide what I can get in the way of lenses with my remaining cash! Can probably get 70d and one decent everyday lens and keep my 50mm 1.8 for now or sell the 50mm with the 5D and get a T3i and a sigma 50mm 1.4 for example!
I really do appreciate your input.

revhen Loc: By the beautiful Hudson

I have a T2i with which I have taken some spectacular shots -- though needing post processing to bring up to my standard. Recently purchased a 70D. Remarkable step-up in quality: sharper and much better color. Most of my shooting is with the EFS 18-135 lens. Flexible and sharp. I have many other lenses but keep coming back to this one. I have printed at 13x19 inches (multiply by 2.54 to get centimeters)and have had really outstanding results using that lens. Greetings from the colonies across the pond. Hope to get over to Blighty again someday. From a confirmed Anglophile.

agillot

if i were you , i would get the newer mirror less camera . quiet and no vibrations , if you are one day using a long lens for like bird stuff .

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

You have the two cheapest lenses that Canon makes, one of which won't even fit/work on the camera you're presently using... I'd suggest you shouldn't be looking at cameras, but at lenses instead.

You might consider keeping your 5D and just getting a couple good lenses to use with it. If your interest is primarily portraiture, then Canon 85/1.8 and 135/2 are a couple excellent choices for that purpose, used on a full frame camera such as the 5D. These are the short and long "ideal" portrait lenses for that format. Shorter focal lengths will give perspective expansion effects that can be a problem in portraiture, while longer focal lengths give a perspective compression effect. This is why the 85mm and 135mm are considered most idea for portraiture on FF.

If instead you decide to get another crop sensor camera, look for one with a better kit lens to get the most bang for your buck. However, if you buy lenses separately, 50mm and 85mm are the ideal portrait focal lengths on a Canon APS-C camera (50mm "acts like" 80mm would on FF... and 85mm "acts like" a 136mm lens would on FF).

But there are many types of portraiture... some of which call for other types of lenses. For example, "environmental" portraiture shows people in their surroundings... such as their home or work place or on the street, etc. Usually a wider lens is wanted for this sort of portrait... such as a 50mm or 35mm on a FF camera... or a 20, 24, 28 or 30mm on a crop sensor camera. You have to be careful to not get too close with these lenses, shooting portraits. If you do, there will be exaggerations in the image that make the person's nose look large and their ears look small. Also, positioning a person too near the edge of the image will cause anamorphic distortions, such as where one of the person's arms looks substantially larger than the other. These are natural perspective distortion effects inherent to wide angle lenses, not flaws that can be "corrected" in any way. So it's just something to be aware of and work with, if you want to do this type of portraiture.

Another example might be fashion photography. Often longer focal lengths are deliberately used for that purpose (maybe 200mm on full frame or 135mm on a crop sensor camera)... to give some subtle perspective compression effect, to show clothing and makeup in the most desirable way, and to make models appear slim (i.e., to counteract the "10 lbs added by the camera" ).

I agree that a 50/1.4 would be a nice upgrade from your 50/1.8. The basic image quality isn't hugely different... it's more subtle than that: You'd see less flare and that in turn gives better contrast and color saturation. The larger and rounder aperture (more aperture blades: 8 vs 5 on the cheaper lens) can render nicer background blur. But the main differences are better build, faster and more accurate focus.

You mention disappointment with sharpness of images... but also a preference for "low" (i.e., larger) apertures. Well, you are working a bit at counter purposes there. For one, extreme sharpness isn't always desirable for portraiture. And using large apertures primary purpose is to blur things down, not to make them sharper. Also, most lenses aren't at their sharpest wide open. Certainly the 50/1.4 and 50/1.8 aren't. Unless I really need it wide open for low light, I try use my 50/1.4 at f2 or slightly more stopped down. It sharpens up nicely. The same is true of the 50/1.8.

It also can be a focus error causing unwanted softness in images.... especially when working with larger apertures where depth of field is shallow and unforgiving. The cheap, plasticky 50/1.8 is renowned for it's focus inaccuracy issues. It's said to be impossible to Micro Focus Adjust (on cameras that have that feature... 5D and T3i don't), because it focuses to slightly different points each time it's refocused. The EF 50/1.8 II is a great little "entry level", first prime lens purchase to experiment with that happens to be especially good for occasional portraits on a crop sensor camera. But I wouldn't want it as my only usable lens... and if using the focal length a lot there are better choices.

The EF 50/1.4 has USM focus drive (actually it's a hybrid version of USM in this particular lens)... that gives quieter, faster and more consistent accuracy. The 85/1.8 and 135/2L both also have USM and are known for their speed and precision focusing.

The original 5D is a bit long in tooth now... But is still a very capable camera. It's AF system is limited (and wasn't improved in the slightest in the 5D Mark II... the 5D III finally saw a major upgrade in that area). Still, it's capable and fine for most portraiture. And you mention preferring to shoot by available light, for which a full frame camera is often more ideal... able to shoot clean, noise-free images at higher ISOs (Note: the original 5D was very competitive with contemporary cameras... but doesn't the high ISO capabilities that some newer cameras do). Frankly, it sounds as if you aren't anywhere close to getting the best out of the camera yet... and just changing to a newer camera body, while continuing to use the cheapest possible lenses, sure ain't very likely to suddenly improve your results.

If it were me, I'd be shopping for lenses... and waiting on camera. There are some advantages to using a crop sensor camera, instead of FF. Your 5D can only use full frame compatible lenses... which tend to be larger, heavier and more expensive. A crop sensor camera such as your old T3i can use all those same lenses, plus a wide selection of "crop only lenses" that in many cases offer good value, nicer size and weight. But FF also is many peoples' preference for portraiture and large aperture work, since it's easier to see the effects of depth of field in the larger, brighter viewfinder of the FF camera. So, you could go either way.... but I'd encourage you to put your priority on lenses in either case. If you go back to a crop sensor camera, do so as inexpensively as possible (buy used, an older model such as 50D, 60D or another T3i), then put more money into lenses. Or just keep the camera you've got and put money toward better lenses to use on it.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

No, it's not. And, not necessarily.

85mm on a Canon APS-C crop sensor camera such as T3i will "act like" a 136mm lens would on a full frame camera. That's one of the ideal portrait focal lengths.

In general, on full frame camera for portraiture one generally might choose 70mm to 135mm as the most ideal focal lengths for the purpose... including both 85mm and 100mm in that range, of course. This isn't a hard and fast rule by any means... these focal lengths simply tend to give the best perspective effects for portraiture, at the more typical working distances.

On a Canon crop sensor camera such as T3i, instead, a similar performing range would be approx. 40mm to 85mm, inclusive of 50mm, 60mm.

Bill Emmett Loc: Bow, New Hampshire

First off your 5D is a old camera, by today's standard. But, it is a very good camera. You actually bought a pig in a poke buying from a friend. So, first I'd send the camera off to Canon for a full tune up, and quality check. Secondly, I would suggest you buy two lenses for your 5D. Both lenses can be bought from KEH, used. One is the Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L USM. This lens is one of Canons best lens. I comes in version I and II, either would fit your style. The second lens is either a Canon EF 24-70mm f2.8, or the Tamron SP 24-70mm f2.8 VC USM. This lens cover the lower range, and wide angle. The 70-200 will cover the mid-and above range, and will allow you to get that just close enough shot, and not be directly in the face of your subject. I like to have either IS, or VC for portraits, since using a tripod on portraits of children is a bit scary for them. But, IS and VC adds cost to a lens. KEH.com is a very good source for equipment. They handle used photography lenses, bodies, and also do great repair work. I've bought several lenses from them, both lenses were Canon "L" quality, and both lenses looked as they were never mounted on a camera. Also, keep in mind, when you buy a third party lens, like a Tamron, as original purchaser, you get a 6 year warranty. This beats Canon's 1 year warranty, even on their "L" quality lenses.

B

clare 72

Thank you all so much for taking the time to share your thoughts. Loads of great advice, it has really helped me. I think I am going to upgrade my lenses first and keep trying with the 5d for now, I can always use those lenses if I change bodies down the line. I think it is possibly a case of a new driver thinking a better car will improve their driving skills! Of course there are much better and newer cameras out there, but this was new and cutting edge once upon a time and people got amazing images from the 5d so I should be able to get more out of it. I will look in to the lenses that you have suggested and let you know what I go with, now I am not buying a new body I have a better budget for lenses!!
Thanks once again.