What's The Purpose?
Oct 22, 2014 17:33:42 #
This may seem like an elementary question, but here ya' go:
What's the purpose of this forum?
Is it to simply share photos? Is it to offer critique and, if you're posting a photo, to learn from the experience of others?
At the risk of running afoul, I've come to a conclusion. Please hear me out.
I'm a professional photographer. It's all I do. As such, I endeavor to always present the best of my work, whether it's to a paying client, and editor or just here on UHH.
Lately, I've been seeing photos posted that, to be blunt, aren't very good. Composition, lighting, processing; you name it. They have problems, and not insignificant ones. Yet, the comments I see, almost invariably, are things such as "Great capture!" or "You really captured the essence of_________" or any multitude of other comments which are, for lack of a better word, polite.
The comments, though, don't seem to be at all helpful. Someone posted some photos they shot, and the laudatory comments ensued. Yet the photos were dull and flat, slanted and, well, just uninteresting.
If it makes sense, they were "snapshots" as opposed to "photographs". Snapshots are fine if they're presented as snapshots. Generally speaking, though, my experience has taught me that most photography forums revolve around "photographs".
I find myself simply shaking my head and moving on, not wanting to be seen as Johnny Raincloud when someone posts photos. The reality is, though, things get posted here which aren't very good, and it seems as though very few people seem real interested in helping the poster improve.
If that's what this forum is about, that's cool. I can continue to simply move on. However, if this forum is about learning and improving, I'd like to know that, as well.
Make no mistake: I'm not saying I'm a photographer without flaws; far from it. But I've been at this long enough to know what makes a good photo and what makes a bad one. I'm not looking to judge, just to help.
Thoughts?
What's the purpose of this forum?
Is it to simply share photos? Is it to offer critique and, if you're posting a photo, to learn from the experience of others?
At the risk of running afoul, I've come to a conclusion. Please hear me out.
I'm a professional photographer. It's all I do. As such, I endeavor to always present the best of my work, whether it's to a paying client, and editor or just here on UHH.
Lately, I've been seeing photos posted that, to be blunt, aren't very good. Composition, lighting, processing; you name it. They have problems, and not insignificant ones. Yet, the comments I see, almost invariably, are things such as "Great capture!" or "You really captured the essence of_________" or any multitude of other comments which are, for lack of a better word, polite.
The comments, though, don't seem to be at all helpful. Someone posted some photos they shot, and the laudatory comments ensued. Yet the photos were dull and flat, slanted and, well, just uninteresting.
If it makes sense, they were "snapshots" as opposed to "photographs". Snapshots are fine if they're presented as snapshots. Generally speaking, though, my experience has taught me that most photography forums revolve around "photographs".
I find myself simply shaking my head and moving on, not wanting to be seen as Johnny Raincloud when someone posts photos. The reality is, though, things get posted here which aren't very good, and it seems as though very few people seem real interested in helping the poster improve.
If that's what this forum is about, that's cool. I can continue to simply move on. However, if this forum is about learning and improving, I'd like to know that, as well.
Make no mistake: I'm not saying I'm a photographer without flaws; far from it. But I've been at this long enough to know what makes a good photo and what makes a bad one. I'm not looking to judge, just to help.
Thoughts?
Oct 22, 2014 17:47:51 #
The purpose of this forum is to generate enough traffic so businesses are willing to advertise here, thus making a living for the forum owner/s. 8-)
Oct 22, 2014 17:50:05 #
Bmac wrote:
The purpose of this forum is to generate enough traffic so businesses are willing to advertise here, thus making a living for the forum owner/s. 8-)
And I would think traffic would increase if people actually knew they could come here and get topic-specific guidance and help instead of comments such as "Great work!" when, in fact, it's not great work.
As an aside, where on the Island are you? I grew up in Suffolk County; Hauppauge...
Oct 22, 2014 17:51:42 #
Oct 22, 2014 18:00:42 #
You are in the right place here on UHH......plenty of guys with a chip on their shoulder here ! :hunf:
Now and then you will get a thread that will (or not) be right up your alley, you will probably find it in Photo Analysis ....not the Attic ! 8-) :XD:
In those threads you can ignore and pass right by and over the average schmo like myself and answer only the bright guys like yourself. :thumbup:
I thought it was odd that you would post this thread here now since you've been on UHH since Dec 2011.....but after reading your pages I see you've been away ! :lol:
Just last week" mrjcall " asked pretty much the same question and it didn't go anywhere as a chit-chat subject.
Now and then you will get a thread that will (or not) be right up your alley, you will probably find it in Photo Analysis ....not the Attic ! 8-) :XD:
In those threads you can ignore and pass right by and over the average schmo like myself and answer only the bright guys like yourself. :thumbup:
I thought it was odd that you would post this thread here now since you've been on UHH since Dec 2011.....but after reading your pages I see you've been away ! :lol:
Just last week" mrjcall " asked pretty much the same question and it didn't go anywhere as a chit-chat subject.
Oct 22, 2014 18:03:16 #
There is a Photo Critique section...is that what you are searching for?
Oct 22, 2014 18:09:01 #
rlaugh wrote:
There is a Photo Critique section...is that what you are searching for?
Not entirely.
I guess maybe I don't see much of a point in sharing a photo if I'm not willing to accept some constructive criticism of it. Furthermore, if someone says "Hey, great photo!", shouldn't I have the latitude to say "Hey, no it's not!" if it's not, without being lambasted, provided I take the time to explain why it's not?
While there is a "Photo Analysis" section, the sub-heading to this section also mentions "general critique".
My view is this: I shoot some real crap sometimes. Odds are, you're never going to see it. But if someone posts something that's relative garbage, where's the harm in pointing out the shortcomings of the photo (without calling it garbage, of course)?
I could cite examples, but I'm intentionally trying not to do that...
Oct 22, 2014 18:26:47 #
New York Steve wrote:
Not entirely. br br I guess maybe I don't see muc... (show quote)
I think I understand what you are saying,but I also think this section is a place where people with less expertise can get comfortable posting,and when they feel more comfortable,will ask for critique or post in the photo analysis section,or photo critique section! I try to encourage people who post in this section so they will stay interested,and hopefully keep trying to get better! I also have found that some of the people who give the harshest critiques,post some pretty bad stuff! So even critique can be subjective!...(wife says we have to go out to supper now,so might be back later!!)
Oct 22, 2014 18:28:18 #
GrandmaJoy
Loc: North Carolina
Give three praises to a child or beginner to every one critique; Beginners need encouragement. We are not trying to win a contest.
Oct 22, 2014 18:49:23 #
rlaugh wrote:
I think I understand what you are saying,but I also think this section is a place where people with less expertise can get comfortable posting,and when they feel more comfortable,will ask for critique or post in the photo analysis section,or photo critique section!
You do realize, though, that this section, too, is for critiques, yes?
About how long is someone considered a "newbie", and to what do we assign that? It seems common to assume that, if someone is new to a forum, they're also new to photography. When I joined my first forum, I had years of professional experience under my belt.
I agree that it's important for people to be comfortable posting, but the coddling comments that often follow the posting of lackluster photos help no one.
Waiting to offer critique is simply allowing the person to continue bad habits. If someone is posting poor photos, and getting comments which are aimed at making him "feel good", the bad habits practiced by the photographer are only reinforced by virtue of the fact that no one is trying to correct them.
How is that a positive or beneficial thing?
Quote:
I also have found that some of the people who give the harshest critiques,post some pretty bad stuff!
And do you take the time to explain why it's bad? Or do you just say "Hey, nice job!" and leave it at that?
Oct 22, 2014 18:52:09 #
GrandmaJoy wrote:
Give three praises to a child or beginner to every one critique; Beginners need encouragement. We are not trying to win a contest.
Define "beginner".
Is it someone new to the forum? Is it someone new to photography?
As I said, I had years of experience under my belt when I joined my first photography forum, so the assumption that a forum newbie is a rookie is often an incorrect one.
As for the "contest" comment, I have no idea what you're talking about with that. I'm simply looking to see people benefit from being here.
I know that may be a difficult thing to digest in this age of "every kid gets a trophy", but it is what it is. There is good photography and there is bad photography.
Why not endeavor to promote the former?
Oct 22, 2014 18:56:22 #
New York Steve wrote:
And I would think traffic would increase if people actually knew they could come here and get topic-specific guidance and help instead of comments such as "Great work!" when, in fact, it's not great work.
As an aside, where on the Island are you? I grew up in Suffolk County; Hauppauge...
As an aside, where on the Island are you? I grew up in Suffolk County; Hauppauge...
Well, you might be wrong about that Steve. Look at the three biggest draws right now in the forum based on posts. They are the Photo Gallery (where one can share photos or request critique), the Main Photography Discussion and the General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk). I would expect the new Attic section to be right up there with the leaders in no time.
Threads such as this crop up every now and then. I suppose we all have our own subjective opinions regarding what makes a good photograph or a bad photograph and what may seem obvious to one is not to another. I see lousy photos (to me) in the critique section fairly regularly and yet they receive glowing critiques. Or I view outstanding photography (to me) there which is nitpicked over silly issues. It's a matter of opinion Steve, and we all have one.
I am in Nassau County. 8-)
Oct 22, 2014 18:59:15 #
rlaugh wrote:
...................I also have found that some of the people who give the harshest critiques,post some pretty bad stuff!
....................
....................
Very true, and some do not post at all. 8-)
Oct 22, 2014 19:04:44 #
Bmac wrote:
It's a matter of opinion Steve, and we all have one.
While true, not all opinions are educated.
If my car doesn't start, my "opinion", given the vast lack of automotive mechanics in my background, may be that the battery needs to be replaced.
Using your train of thought, that's a perfectly acceptable opinion.
Until someone with more experience and expertise comes along and says "No, it's the alternator".
If that more experienced person doesn't come along, I'll go to my grave believing that I was correct in diagnosing the problem as the battery.
Why are people so afraid of critiques? Thin skin? Delicate psyche?
I honestly don't understand the apparent reluctance to it...
Oct 22, 2014 20:33:30 #
The charm of UHH for me, and the value, is that there are a lot of amateurs and snap shooters posting along with some extremely knowledgeable and talented serious photographers. Many are using photography as an enjoyable hobby, as a way to get out there in the world and then share their adventures, as a way to have souvenirs of family and pets, etc. Those activities are, and always have been, an important part of photography. We can look at some of those photos and find fault with them easily enough, but until and unless a person asks for help it is not polite or constructive to do so. Answers are of no value to a person who is not asking the questions, no matter how good the answers may be.
People taking and posting photos of their pets, or their children or grandchildren , care about the subject and are just sharing that. They don't "see" the photo the same way you might, what they "see" is the loved one captured as a moment in time. That does not mean there is no value to the photo. Look at photos from the Civil War. Are they always well-executed? No. But they are interesting and of value.
Similarly, photos are valuable when they are being taken by others with a shared interest, regardless of how well the photos were executed. For example, when someone posts a photo of an operating railroad steam locomotive, that is of interest to me and I am glad they took the photo and posted it. Many are posting photos of native plants from different parts of the country and the world. That is of interest to me for the sake of the subject, not because of the quality of the photo.
I am glad that there are not endless hair-splitting and tedious debates between the experts here as there are on some other photography boards. I am glad that there is a place here for anyone interested in photography on any level. At the same time, the experts and professionals that we do have here are second to none anywhere, and the wealth of information and inspiration we can get from them is incalculable.
Snapshot and casual photography, souvenir photography, journalistic record photography, specialty photography such as the techniques the True Macro group is pursuing here, portrait photography, nature photography, post processing, technical advice and ideas - it all has a place.
Now, are people improving their skills as a result of this approach? Or is everybody mired in the world of crap shots because they aren't being adequately criticized? I say yes, people are improving their skills under this arrangement. There are several people here who have dramatically improved the quality of their photographs over the few months I have been here without anyone ever telling them that their early efforts were crap, even though they probably were. Others are happy doing what they are doing and are not looking for criticism. Were it up to me, I would say they are welcome here. The membership requirements should be 98.6 and shooting.
Mike
People taking and posting photos of their pets, or their children or grandchildren , care about the subject and are just sharing that. They don't "see" the photo the same way you might, what they "see" is the loved one captured as a moment in time. That does not mean there is no value to the photo. Look at photos from the Civil War. Are they always well-executed? No. But they are interesting and of value.
Similarly, photos are valuable when they are being taken by others with a shared interest, regardless of how well the photos were executed. For example, when someone posts a photo of an operating railroad steam locomotive, that is of interest to me and I am glad they took the photo and posted it. Many are posting photos of native plants from different parts of the country and the world. That is of interest to me for the sake of the subject, not because of the quality of the photo.
I am glad that there are not endless hair-splitting and tedious debates between the experts here as there are on some other photography boards. I am glad that there is a place here for anyone interested in photography on any level. At the same time, the experts and professionals that we do have here are second to none anywhere, and the wealth of information and inspiration we can get from them is incalculable.
Snapshot and casual photography, souvenir photography, journalistic record photography, specialty photography such as the techniques the True Macro group is pursuing here, portrait photography, nature photography, post processing, technical advice and ideas - it all has a place.
Now, are people improving their skills as a result of this approach? Or is everybody mired in the world of crap shots because they aren't being adequately criticized? I say yes, people are improving their skills under this arrangement. There are several people here who have dramatically improved the quality of their photographs over the few months I have been here without anyone ever telling them that their early efforts were crap, even though they probably were. Others are happy doing what they are doing and are not looking for criticism. Were it up to me, I would say they are welcome here. The membership requirements should be 98.6 and shooting.
Mike
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.