Patw28 Loc: PORT JERVIS, NY

OK, we've had a great, seven page, discussion on the professional at the wedding.
How about the amateur? Both from the perspective of the amateur and the professional?

For starters, I turn down ALL requests to do a wedding 'as a friend'.
(Sometimes I make the smartass comment that ' amateur' means 'love' , not 'business'.)
If possible, I contact the pro beforehand to hear their reservations and to remove my presence as a problem.
I've stopped toting the DSL and it's accoutrements, having settled with myself that a bridge camera will serve me very well to get the kind of shots I hope to get.

etc, etc. I'd really like to hear your take from both sides.

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

As a wedding videographer pro and a budding wedding photography pro I always have a discussion with the B&G about the use of cell phones, ipads and cameras during the actual ceremony. I would say at least half the time the decision is made to have the officiate announce to the guests prior to the start to please turn off your camera and cell phones & ipads.

IMO, amateurs often just get in the way and frankly mess up what the pros are trying to accomplish. I've had amateurs get up out of their seats, walk around to the front behind the officiate, within 5 feet of the B&G and stand there snapping pictures, talk about photo bombing. I've had people stand in front of one of my boxed in video cameras, 2 feet in front! ipad grandma staking her end row chair before the ceremony, then sticking out into the isle 2 feet .......... and then holding the ipad another 2 feet to the center of the isle.

People invited to weddings are to place their attention on the B&G, to witness the special occasion, not to be the 'pro' .............

I can spot the 'trouble' person immediately, long before the wedding starts .... they are a huge cancer and stick out of the crowd, they usually come with an attitude ........ nuff said

ArtzDarkroom Loc: Near Disneyland-Orange County, California

Beercat,
Your observation provides an interesting insight to me because I will be the Groom soon and have posted here in UHH a request for a photographer. (It was moved to the Buy/Sell/Trade section). I have had a couple of members volunteer and I made it clear I would not be paying for their services. They accepted. The wedding will be in a small tight venue, onboard a tall ship.

The night after conversing with one of the gentlemen, with an unexpectedly impressive resume I considered the possibility of him not showing up. I now have a Plan B, just incase.

Plan B:
As you pointed out, cameras in smartphones, iPads and notebooks are ubiquitous. In the past people used to put out disposable 35mm cameras for their guests to show their perspective. My plan builds on that. I would provide 'business cards' or notes asking the guests to take a selfie and as many pictures as they like, then pick their absolute best and email them to me. I would then use iPhoto's capabilities to create a photo book from those images. Could there be any better participation? I could also convert that book into a PDF, post it online and allow all the guests that are interested... if any, to download it for free.

The days of wedding photography and the wedding photographer may not be over yet...

This would be my Tall Ship Challenge.

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

There is a place for amateurs and their phones but it isn't during the ceremony when their are pros doing the take, they simply get in the way. Remember the B&G are paying for the pro to capture the money shots which usually only happen for a small window of opportunity, such as the first kiss, the ring, the father walking the bride down the isle, very hard for the pro to say, "wait a minute, someone got in the way, we need to do it over again ......... at the same time the B&G are holding the pro to a standard of capturing the moment.

In your case you have decided to not hire a pro in which case it probably isn't a big issue, plus you are encouraging the use of cameras which is your right, frankly as a pro I wouldn't feel comfortable capturing a wedding with camera use being encouraged. I know of some pros who have it in their contract to have it announced to put the gadgets away.

DavidPine Loc: Fredericksburg, TX

We hire an accomplished professional photographer 3 to 4 times a year and have done so for quite some time. These shoots are for business and family purposes and I won't shoot them. He knows I am a fairly good amateur photographer and we talk shop once in a while. Out of respect for him I have never produced a camera nor offered advise during a shoot. During the shoots, I am mostly quiet and follow his directions. I would probably do some things differently once in a while but everyone involved always end up happy. I want to keep it that way.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

If I were to attend a wedding for someone I care about, I'd bring a P&S and be as unobtrusive as possible. I don't think a wedding photographer should bar all others from taking pictures, unless he plans to hand out prints for free to all who want them.

Swamp Gator Loc: Coastal South Carolina

I edited the last sentence because these people also seem to often be LARGE individuals, ya know, just to make things worse. :)

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

Remember it's the B&G who make the decision, we only give advice.

Regarding prints ...... everything most photographers shoot now days goes up to a password protected site that the B&G can give out at their digression. On my site all pictures are uploaded in High Res and can be downloaded in High Res, then the person can print themselves or take to Costco or anywhere they choose or order from the site. I don't get a piece of that action but that's me, some other photographers do it differently.

jmsail365 Loc: Stamford, Ct

I have shot several wedding videos for relatives. The number of flashes going off during the first dance, father/daughter dance etc. is a real problem. At one I did last fall an amateur turned on the light on what appeared to be a cell phone & shot around 15 seconds of video. This completely detracted from the video that went to the B&G. And my guess is the vast bulk of these videos & stills will not be shown to the couple. Instead they will be deleted later leaving the B & G with just another flash in their video.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

I don't often shoot weddings, but when I do I insist on a "no camera, cellphone, Go-Pro" rule. As the hired pro, the quality of my work will be adversely affected if I have to contend with the built in lighting on phone or small video cameras, not to mention people just getting in the way. It is in my contract. I suggest to the party paying my fee that they advise their guests that there will be a time set aside for "pics with the happy couple" but under no circumstances will interference be tolerated. I will be firm, and advise the person with whom I have a contract if a camera comes out, and walk out of a wedding if a camera comes out again. The last thing I need is to compete with people in the way when I am working. And I refuse to deliver a service that is incomplete, because uncle Harry was in the aisle taking his footage with his iPhone. The 'unplugged" wedding is the way to go.

As an attendee, I leave my phone in my pocket and my camera at home. It's a matter of courtesy.

Bobbee

Well I am not small and have a LARGE Irish Brooklyn personality. I just push my way to my position and bring up my camera. Most if not all the people know who I am and why I am there and they move away. If not, swinging up my elbow for the shutter release usually does the final trick.

Atomicmechanic Loc: Corinth New York

I try to as much as possible work with the amateurs at a wedding. In the same sense, I do advise the bride and groom, that if someone does step in front of me and I miss a shot, I'm not responsible. It's their guests and they, or someone needs to be in control of them. Normally during group shots, cake cutting, garter toss, etc. I encourage everyone else to take pictures after I have my shot or a clear spot for taking the shot. It makes the wedding a more pleasant atmosphere for everyone concerned. For the majority of the time this has worked out quite well for me. I also have a stipulation in my contract and it puts the bride and groom on notice regarding the actions of the amateurs at their wedding. Sometimes I even give advice to them to better their photography, as I have received advice myself when I was beginning and still considered an amateur. When I'm the guest I let the pros do their job.

Bobbee

manofhg Loc: Knoxville, TN

I've shot several weddings as an unpaid amateur, friend and/or invited guest. I realize that I am not paid and someone else is. I try very hard to make sure that I am not bothering or taking advantage of the photographer. Many times I will talk with the photographer and tell them that if I am a problem, just say so and I'll stop. This usually makes them feel at ease and they realize that I respect their job and the fact that I'm not trying to get their work. I have been to some weddings where the photographer did his set ups and asked that no one else shoot, but then he/she left and all were allowed to shoot as they pleased.

I often shoot things that the pro doesn't, like table set ups and food where no one is (yet), shooting the ceremony from a distance with a long lens, etc.

Here is an example of my shots, on Flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30090498@N05/sets/72157633289028590/

ArtzDarkroom Loc: Near Disneyland-Orange County, California

I like your wedding pictures.




:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: