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Is Vibration Reduction Important at Short Focal Lengths?
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Sep 4, 2014 00:23:38   #
SonnyE Loc: Communist California, USA
 
BEER!

It's not just for breakfast anymore! :P

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Sep 4, 2014 00:52:48   #
bibsthecat Loc: Cold Spring MN
 
bewerner wrote:
Consider this: VR stops your movement but doesn't stop your subject's movement. I used to think VR was critical all the time. My revisionist thinking is that, unless you want some blur intentionally in your subject (movement blur for effect), you're better off using a fast enough shutter speed. Primes are perfect for this since they tend to be fast lenses.


Good point. I often zoom in on a photo with people in it and find everything is sharp except the person's face. VR can give you a false sense of security. I find myself not taking many photos where there is not anything moving in it, maybe just the leaves on a tree.

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Sep 4, 2014 02:08:41   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
amehta wrote:
The expectation is that camera shake does not result in a small "translational movement", shifting up/down/right/left, but a small "angular movement" like turning a little in those directions. If the angular movement is the same with a 24mm or 100mm lens, the effect is greater with the 100mm lens because the total angle of view of the frame is less. The other factor, though, is that physically longer lenses are likely to result in greater angular movement than physically shorter lenses, and a 24mm f/2.8 lens is much smaller than a 100mm f/2.8 lens.

While VR is used in macro lenses and exotic telephotos, it is usually not in most other prime lenses. While it helps avoid camera shake, it also adds optical and physical elements which can affect the overall image quality. People who shoot fast primes usually want the best IQ they can get, so not having VR makes sense.

My general solution to reducing camera shake when using primes is a monopod.
The expectation is that camera shake does not resu... (show quote)


ametha, I never thought about the "adds optical and physical elements". Although I would have assumed the manufactures would have compensation optically for the in lens' VR system, maybe it is not as perfect a system as I think it to be optically. If one really thinks about it, the shifting of a lens element corrects for one big optical problem (blur) at the minor optical cost in sharpness. What also interesting about this particular problem is that doesn't exist for in body stabilization systems. In camera systems shift the sensor back in front of the image coming from the lens. Although it is not a perfect system either, it will result in a different identifiable image alteration.

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Sep 4, 2014 02:17:11   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
OddJobber wrote:
I'm now convinced that prime lenses are generally better than zooms in terms of image quality and am looking at what primes would be useful for me. Looking at shorter focal length zooms (50-100mm or so), there's sometimes (usually) a considerable cost difference with or without vibration reduction.

I keep reading that at shorter focal lengths, 35, 50, 58, 60mm, etc., VR is not so important, but it seems to me that if I move the lens 1 percent of the frame height or width it shouldn't matter what the focal length is, the amount of blur would be the same.

Having consumed, by my guesstimation, 9000 gallons of beer during my life, my hand is not as steady as before, therefore this is an important consideration for me.

Input and advice please?
I'm now convinced that prime lenses are generally ... (show quote)


ametha has outlined the answer to your situation fairly accurately. The main thing you need to ask yourself is if this shaking is all the time or only when you drink. If it is happening all the time, you might want both the monopod that ametha suggests and the VR for the lense.

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Sep 4, 2014 08:04:04   #
banjonut Loc: Southern Michigan
 
OddJobber wrote:
I'm now convinced that prime lenses are generally better than zooms in terms of image quality and am looking at what primes would be useful for me. Looking at shorter focal length zooms (50-100mm or so), there's sometimes (usually) a considerable cost difference with or without vibration reduction.

I keep reading that at shorter focal lengths, 35, 50, 58, 60mm, etc., VR is not so important, but it seems to me that if I move the lens 1 percent of the frame height or width it shouldn't matter what the focal length is, the amount of blur would be the same.

Having consumed, by my guesstimation, 9000 gallons of beer during my life, my hand is not as steady as before, therefore this is an important consideration for me.

Input and advice please?
I'm now convinced that prime lenses are generally ... (show quote)


I believe it does help, but not to the extent that it would with a longer lens.

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Sep 4, 2014 22:58:12   #
bull drink water Loc: pontiac mi.
 
I shoot mostly sony, so steady- shot is built in. since I came up from film days, anything up to 100mm and f3.5 is no problem. I can up the shutter speed to 400-500/sec.

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Sep 4, 2014 23:17:29   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
SonnyE wrote:
BEER!

It's not just for breakfast anymore! :P


Come to the Texas State Fair....you can get it fried!!

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Sep 6, 2014 21:19:20   #
aqua
 
Thank you marki3rd for the links. They are indeed excellent.

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Sep 10, 2014 20:24:37   #
amehta Loc: Boston
 
wdross wrote:
ametha, I never thought about the "adds optical and physical elements". Although I would have assumed the manufactures would have compensation optically for the in lens' VR system, maybe it is not as perfect a system as I think it to be optically. If one really thinks about it, the shifting of a lens element corrects for one big optical problem (blur) at the minor optical cost in sharpness. What also interesting about this particular problem is that doesn't exist for in body stabilization systems. In camera systems shift the sensor back in front of the image coming from the lens. Although it is not a perfect system either, it will result in a different identifiable image alteration.
ametha, I never thought about the "adds optic... (show quote)

With either lens or sensor based image stabilization, there would be some effect on the image. With the sensor, it would be because the sensor is not perfectly aligned with the optical axis. When this is smaller than the camera shake from hand-holding (or using a monopod), then the overall image quality is improved.

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Sep 10, 2014 20:25:53   #
amehta Loc: Boston
 
pecohen wrote:
This relates to a question that occurred to me recently. Thinking back to the time when we bought rolls of film for our cameras and there was no such thing as image stabilization, my rule of thumb was that I could hand-hold my camera and a 50mm lens if taking a 1/60 second exposure. I might get away with 1/30 of a second provided I could hold the camera especially steady.

Now, with image stabilization and zoom lenses I don't seem to have any rule of thumb to go by. I get a little nervous when taking hand-held shots of more than 1/30 second but I've had quite decent results for much longer exposures.

Does anyone have a good rule-of-thumb to suggest?
This relates to a question that occurred to me rec... (show quote)

My general rule-of-thumb is to take the "1/focal length" shutter speed and make it slower by 2-3 stops.

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Sep 10, 2014 21:44:50   #
n3eg Loc: West coast USA
 
OddJobber wrote:
I'm now convinced that prime lenses are generally better than zooms in terms of image quality and am looking at what primes would be useful for me. Looking at shorter focal length zooms (50-100mm or so), there's sometimes (usually) a considerable cost difference with or without vibration reduction.

I keep reading that at shorter focal lengths, 35, 50, 58, 60mm, etc., VR is not so important, but it seems to me that if I move the lens 1 percent of the frame height or width it shouldn't matter what the focal length is, the amount of blur would be the same.

Input and advice please?
I'm now convinced that prime lenses are generally ... (show quote)


I've found that it's not really necessary shooting at fast shutter speeds with short primes, but when I have low light it gives me the ability to shoot at 1/4 second and keep the ISO down. At least that's what I can do with my "inferior" micro four thirds camera with IBIS that will stabilize any lens.

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