achammar Loc: Idaho

This copyright twist just came to mind and I need suggestions/comments (actually it's probably not a twist to the ones with experience with this). I do weddings but I haven't done a lot of them and I don't charge a whole lot yet, although I am happy with what I get for my services for now.
Up until now, it's always been a shake of the hand and everything has been fine. I've decided its time to go legal. I have a general contract that I am going to use that covers everything pretty thouroughly. I am retaining all copyrights, but allowing my clients to reproduce prints from the CD's as long as they do not profit from them. The "twist" I am referring to comes in to play if they go to a local store or service, have prints made for themselves, they have not prifited in any way, but now that service has profitted from my copyrighted photos. That bugs me a little. It doesn't seem fair that I don't allow them to make prints at all. Should I just forget about it and let it be that way? Should I specify that prints can only be reproduced by me, (I create and sell prints and albums also), and if so, what happens if they can't find me someday? What are some of your ideas or knowledge on this, or wording I should use? I know you guys here have good ones!
Thanks!
:-)
Albert

Horseart Loc: Alabama

If they buy a CD from you, they do not own their wedding photos. They just own a CD. The images on that CD still belong to you and always will. If they want more, why shouldn't they buy them from you? If they want only certain photos on them, simply put that many and make a little more money on them. I don't see why you should give them the rights to YOUR work.

I sell greeting cards with MY artwork on them. I hope I never catch anyone else selling copies of images that belong to me.

You should note that your copyrighted images should never be copied and used for any purpose by anyone other than youself

dirtpusher Loc: tulsa oklahoma

horseheart you get right to it, best answer :thumbup:
this may help define few things
http://www.photosecrets.com/photography-law-copyright

14kphotog Loc: Marietta, Ohio

The problem as I see it is; yes they can take your photos on a disc and have them printed anywhere, but at what QUALITY printing. Remember these photos show YOUR quality of photography, if their printing is poor, and they show the pictures to others, how will that reflect on your work? If you do quality work then keep control of that.

achammar Loc: Idaho

Thanks all of you!

So then what you are all saying is that they have a CD with their wedding images on it, but they cannot have them printed. That seems to be unfair to them, but I see how it protects me. What if they just want an 8 x 10 to put on their wall a year from now. They won't have any right to do that? As far as I know, the prints I make are as good as you could get anywhere. I do want them to be able to have prints of any picture at any time, but I don't want anybody else to profit from that, or any poor quality image being shown of my work. I don't know how to word my contract so I can accomplish both. I assume they should also not be allowed to put my photos online such as on Facebook to show off their wedding?
In summary, should I word the contract so that any prints that they want EVER, must be bought from me?
Here is the section of my contract as it reads now:
***************
___2. Model Release: Even though the client will receive a CD of the images, unless otherwise specified, it is understood that any and all rights to proofs, final or sample prints, thereof shall remain the property of the photographer and may be used for advertising, display, portfolio or any other purpose thought proper by the photographer. In addition, the client may reproduce prints from the CD at any time for his/her own personal use. Client may not profit in any way from the photographer’s work.
****************

Any suggestions on how I should change that?
Sorry so long...
Thanks!
Albert

Country's Mama Loc: Michigan

I don't know if this fits with this discussion or not. But I notice that you do not want your photos on Facebook. I know a young photographer that posts the shots on FB with a watermark, then allows anyone to repost as long as they don't crop or alter. Free advertising. She has made quite a business for herself doing this . Just a thought.

achammar Loc: Idaho

Now that is a good idea. I don't how I will work that into my contract, but I will figure it out. I like it! Thanks for that. It's not that I didn't want them to post them on Facebook, I just don't want them to change them at all or resize them wrong and have them look crappy and then post...

Horseart Loc: Alabama

You are not supposed to poat a photgraph ANYWHERE that does not belong to you, but people on Facebook do it all the time. For instance, my dear friend, a professional equine photographer sends her clients proofs and the client will even post the PROOF on FB. She has a notice in her contract that says they may NOT post proofs ANYWHERE and if they do. they will face a fine. She has had her attorney hit them with this a time or two. It loses customers, but they didn't intend to buy anyway. They did pay $100 fine.
I say if the customer wants and 8x10, let him buy it from you.

BUT, as Country's Mama wrote, if they want to re-post with a watermark on it...yes, I say the same...good advertisement!

achammar Loc: Idaho

Thanks Horseart,

I think what "Country's Mama" (or at least what I had in mind) was not for the client to post them, but watermark them and I will post them on my page. Then from there anyone can tag them (once I have accepted them as a friend) and have them show up on their page, and it will still be linked to my page in some sort of way. I'm not a Facebook expert (yet), but I think it works something like that. As more people link to images I post, the more advertising I get, and they are still mine, but will show on their page (I'm pretty sure anyway)...I will do some testing/checking and see.
And I have decided to reword my contract so that they have no right to reproduce or alter any of my images in any form, not even duplication the CD or DVD. They can only get any items they need from me...period.

Horseart Loc: Alabama

Good for you! That's how it should be!!!!

drjuice

How about including in the model release (or elsewhere in the contract) words to the effect that

"Neither the client nor those in client's employ may profit from (........) of the photos on the CD or DVD provided to the client."

Then elsewhere, some lingo to specify the sizes and per copy cost (with discounts for multiple copies of the same images) that you will charge for copies of images until some date (many photographers I know give them 15 or so months from the date of the event.

Hope this helps.

v

achammar Loc: Idaho

Thanks for that drjuice,
I actually thought about a time limit myself, but then decided against it. I don't have the prices listed on my contract, but I do have my website address where they can go look. I also already do have a discount for multiple images of the same SIZE image, but not the same exact image. I appreciate your suggestion (very much!), but I think I'm gonna stick with the no duplication whatsoever policy for now. There is no reason why they cannot purchase anything they want from me. My quality is very good, and the prices are very reasonable. It's just simpler that way anyway. No hassle or borderline "is that ok" stuff.
Thanks!
:-)

CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver

There are a few approaches here. If you give them files that can be printed - say 1000 pixels on the long side or larger, and THEN say they cannot print them,it makes no sense. If you do not want them to print them either don't give/sell the files or make them so small that a print is not viable.

I would suggest if you deliver files that are full resolution (or close to it) that you get paid enough you don't care if they go print them.) If one of my clients wants a high-res file, they pay the same as my 11x14 price - that usually stops that request.


Face it - once that file is out of your hands, you have no control. Personally, I think offering files on a disk is dumb. If they ASK, make them pay.

Now I will give the client a very low-res file if that image was purchased as an 8x10 or larger. They cannot print it, but it is fine for email/FB and it has my logo on it.

achammar Loc: Idaho

You have a very good point. I know a lot of them will not follow the copyright laws anyway. I have always included the CD's with all the images automatically and include that in my photographing fee, and in high quality at that so they could print as they please. I've never had a contract before and never worried about it, but like I said, this is a step up for me as I am progressing, so I'm struggling with the best way to do this. I live in a small community and most people around here do not have a lot of money so if I charge too much, they don't buy anyway...they just rely on their friends for the images. Maybe I should have 2 options on my contract for them to choose and initial the one they want. The printable images for a certain price, and the ones that are to low-res to print for a different price. That way they can't print it if they haven't paid me a fair price. That will not stop them from putting them on FB or anything though. I know you said you don''t normally give out CD's of the images, but I do want to give them the CD's with the images, but I don't think any of them will want their wedding photos to have my logo on them. So the point you have brought up is making me think some more...

Thanks!

yooperfalls

Copyrights are a way of protecting the owner from damages. So you need to ask yourself if my copyright is violated how much
could I collect?