selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

We are looking only for evidence, not a debate. We don't need opinions, tables, charts or links to articles pro or con.

What we would like to see are two uncropped exposures of any subject. Use a tripod so that every part of the first image appears in the second.

The first image should be at your base ISO using average, matrix or center weighted metering and no exposure compensation. The second exposure should move the histogram to the right by one of three methods (you may need to switch to manual mode):

1. Increasing the exposure
2. Opening the aperture
3. Increasing the ISO

You may want to save the second as a raw image to protect the highlights. Do not move the histogram too far to the right since you don't want to blow your highlights. Keep in mind that a raw image may have an additional one stop or more of additional latitude beyond what is shown by the camera's histogram. Other than reducing the brightness of the second image to undo the effect of the increased exposure or ISO, do no further post processing to either image.

Please limit your posts to two images starting at your lowest normal ISO (100 or 200). Click on "(store original)" so we can download the images. If each image is larger than 10MB you will need to post the second image separately. For an example, see: http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-227207-8.html#3847007

What we are looking for is whether any noise that might be visible in the first image (whether or not you can see it yourself) is less evident in the second image. Viewers may comment on noise reduction or on any other effect that they observe resulting from the application of ETTR.

Simply provide the examples and let others comment only on whether they do or do not see a difference. If anyone sees one, please say where. Please do not debate with each other or criticize anyone's comments.

Everyone will be free to draw their own conclusions without interference from me or any other proponent or opponent of ETTR.

LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field

PM or do a search for this Hogger: Uuglypher.

I seem to remember he did a tutorial on this a few days ago

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

We are looking for an unbiased (from either side) demonstration.

LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field

OK. I'll look it over and maybe do some experimenting tomorrow. I don't have a "dog in the fight"....

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

Exactly what we are looking for. But anyone else may contribute, just don't tip your hand. We are looking for unadulterated evidence, not opinion.

Any subject is appropriate. It doesn't have to be a masterpiece. A low contrast subject would be easier, at least one with some separation between the right side of the histogram and the right edge of the scale in the first image.

The quickest way to do this is with Aperture priority and exposure compensation for the second shot to lower the shutter speed without narrowing the depth of field. Don't apply more exposure compensation than your editor can handle in a single step or you might introduce new noise into the second image.

If you have long exposure noise reduction, apply it to both images or neither image.

Don't be concerned if you can't see noise in the first image - someone else might. What we will be looking for is the difference in visible noise between the two images as well as any side effects from moving the histogram to the right.

PS: In my initial post "1. Increasing the exposure", I meant to say "Increasing the exposure time" (lowering the shutter speed).

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

Here is an interesting "de-bunking ETTR" article. Has photos and histograms to demo settings.
http://schewephoto.com/ETTR/

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

We don't want this thread to become an ETTR debate, pro or con. We have seen plenty of them. Words are easy. Apparently, photographic evidence is difficult to produce.

Photography is a visual medium. The best evidence is visual example.

LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field

Thanks for the details for process.

Bob Boner

Did you bother looking at the site dpullem provided? It does exactly what you asked for, and is by someone who has been involved with digital photography from the start.

Rongnongno Loc: FL

You seem to be not aware that ETTR applies only to raw so taking any format in the first picture is wrong. Both should be shot in raw.

As to no opinion, fine, I like that.

Only one thing, this debate has been raging for years now and 'plenty' of evidence has been presented in both case w/o resolving the issue once and for all.

Personally, by experience, I have come to the conclusion:
It depends meaning that with like everything else in photography you need to adapt to your subject, not to a rule. That is NOT an opinion.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

Yes and it dies not provide what I am asking for with a modern DLSR at low ISO. The camera in that article is a Canon EOS 1Ds Mark II, ten years old.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

I am very well aware. Since the first image is going to be converted to JPEG with no adjustments, it does not matter whether the camera does it or if you convert it from a raw image on your computer. If you prefer to do the conversion for the first image on your computer, feel free to do so.


That's why we don't want this thread to turn into another one of those debates. There are too many references to old cameras and and old articles.

While everyone has been standing around arguing about it, the game has changed. Newer low-noise cameras like the D4, D610, D800 and even D5300 (and many more from all of the top manufacturers) have moved the goalposts.

Newer cameras present us with new opportunities and we need to keep our minds open. Once you think you know everything you will be left behind. We can all afford to keep learning.

MtnMan Loc: ID

I'm replying now so I'll get notified of posts. I like the idea.

But I do have a question. If you really want to see noise, why not start at a higher ISO that has noticeable noise, and not allow increasing the ISO for the ETTR because it confounds the effect?

LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field

Do you want our tests posted in this thread?

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

Yes.