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Jun 29, 2014 22:41:02   #
Rudolf Loc: Marietta, Georgia
 
Cooks taking a mid-afternoon break.


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Jun 30, 2014 06:27:26   #
abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois
 
I do not like the excessive contrast and grain. I had enough of that in my film days. The faces are not particularly interesting.

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Jun 30, 2014 09:47:24   #
jgordon Loc: Boulder CO
 
abc1234 wrote:
I do not like the excessive contrast and grain. I had enough of that in my film days. The faces are not particularly interesting.


I'm not sure I agree with this comment. The gritty life of cooks -- even sometimes those who work in fancy restaurants -- is a story worth telling. The contrast and grain in this image might help tell that story. But I am not sure that I would have realized that these guys were cooks without the title. I guess one guy is wearing an apron so maybe that is obvious clue I would have noticed, although for some reason it did not immediately jump out at me.

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Jun 30, 2014 09:59:10   #
abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois
 
jgordon wrote:
I'm not sure I agree with this comment. The gritty life of cooks -- even sometimes those who work in fancy restaurants -- is a story worth telling. The contrast and grain in this image might help tell that story. But I am not sure that I would have realized that these guys were cooks without the title. I guess one guy is wearing an apron so maybe that is obvious clue I would have noticed, although for some reason it did not immediately jump out at me.


I understand what you are saying but in this case, I think the contrast and grain are just sloppy and thoughtless. Apropos to your comments, you might want to look at Margaret Bourke-White's photo of the South African miners.

http://bourkewhite.wordpress.com/galleries/on-the-mines/miners-1139-and-5122/

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Jun 30, 2014 10:49:39   #
Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)
 
Rudolf wrote:
Cooks taking a mid-afternoon break.


I like the explicit acknowledgement of the "gritty" life, gritty back alley (behind either a very clean restaurant or a "greasy spoon"... hard to tell) , and the gritty existance exemplified and accentuated in this contrast scene.

I come back for further comment having read the opinion by a frequent critic that this image disclosed a "sloppy" tecnique in its graininess...and its contrast. To accuse others of "sloppiness" and inattention or careless technique while protecting oneself from criticism by refusal to post one's own images for perusal is unseemly and boorish.

So Rudolf, be not discouraged by that critic's precious sensitivity to grain and contrast, get back on the street and let us see more of your images, taken and processed in your our own style.

Dave in SD

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Jun 30, 2014 11:16:47   #
amyinsparta Loc: White county, TN
 
Wow, why don't we over analyze. It's a gritty portrait of two gritty guys. I personally think it could use just a tad less contrast, but that is MY preference. If you like it, that is all that matters. I think it's a good shot.

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Jun 30, 2014 13:05:05   #
Rudolf Loc: Marietta, Georgia
 
Ok. Thanks for the critiques. This HDR image was processed in black and white through Photomatix . Whether they are cooks or kitchen help, they serve heroically behind closed doors in our restaurants. It is not a soft life, but one of endless grind. Henceforth, the use of Libroto's sharpening in CS5 and paper toner in Nik software. A soft and low contrast image does not reflect well what these two endure daily.


(Download)

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Jun 30, 2014 13:35:55   #
Nightski
 
I loved this shot right away, Rudolf. I go by the back of a restaurant every day where the employees sit out for smoke breaks with their cell phones. Your first image captures it perfectly ... it's grungy, it's raw, it's realistic ... and I would never eat at that restaurant because of it!

I got that they were cooks right away. What someone takes away from this, depends on their life experience.

I think the "excessive contrast" ... I don't think it's excessive ... depicts perfectly what these employee "break" areas tend to look like. They are dirty, littered, grungy. I would also add that having worked in the kitchen of a big hotel chain while in college, I got to see first hand what it's like to work the grills. I worked in the salad dept. across from the cooks. It is a dirty, greasy, hot job ... the cooks in the first pic depict the way cooks really look in the middle of a shift.

I like the expression on their faces .. so real .. one guy so friendly the other one pensive. I think this is an extremely well done photo.

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Jun 30, 2014 14:28:31   #
Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)
 
Uuglypher wrote:
I like the explicit acknowledgement of the "gritty" life, gritty back alley (behind either a very clean restaurant or a "greasy spoon"... hard to tell) , and the gritty existance exemplified and accentuated in this contrast scene.

I come back for further comment having read the opinion by a frequent critic that this image disclosed a "sloppy" tecnique in its graininess...and its contrast. To accuse others of "sloppiness" and inattention or careless technique while protecting oneself from criticism by refusal to post one's own images for perusal is unseemly and boorish.

Again, it might be easier to understand his rather rough critique of this image, if the critic had ever made it possible to review any of his images, but he claims not wishing to subject them to the sorts of comments made here (other than, I presume, his own) and thus has never submitted an image to the Critique section, nor supplied a link to any portfolio of his works.

Further, he urges comparison of this image ( made, I presume, with a less-than medium or large format camera) with a classic image of B-Whites who consistently used the various large-format Graflex models. He may...or may not ... realize he has opened tne door to deserved urgings that he become far more familiar than he seem to be with the images of Cartier-Bresson, W.E,Smith, Robert Capa, Weegee, Brassai and other who clearly paid their dues in photojournalism and on the street and clearly had no ostentatious antipahy to grain!

Besides his obvious modesty concerning his own images, He needs to review his attitudes concerning both grain/noise and contrast. But then....perhaps he has much to be modest about?

So Rudolf, be not discouraged by that critic's precious sensitivity to grain and contrast, get back on the street and let us see more of your images, taken and processed in your our own style.

Dave in SD
I like the explicit acknowledgement of the "g... (show quote)

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Jun 30, 2014 14:41:25   #
Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)
 
I wish to be perfectly clear. I object in no way to abcd1234's antipathy toward either this images's grain or to its contrast. Chacun a son gout.

I do, however, object strongly to his accusation of sloppiness and carelessness putatively exercised by the photographer. Were I the photographer, I'd be rightly incensed at the crass effrontery of such pejorative assessment of my sincere efforts.
But then, he never would put his own images at risk of critique, now would he?

Dave in SD

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Jun 30, 2014 16:09:13   #
St3v3M Loc: 35,000 feet
 
Uuglypher wrote:
I wish to be perfectly clear. I object in no way to abcd1234's antipathy toward either this images's grain or to its contrast. Chacun a son gout.

I do, however, object strongly to his accusation of sloppiness and carelessness putatively exercised by the photographer. Were I the photographer, I'd be rightly incensed at the crass effrontery of such pejorative assessment of my sincere efforts.
But then, he never would put his own images at risk of critique, now would he?

Dave in SD
I wish to be perfectly clear. I object in no way t... (show quote)

Treat others as you wish to be treated, and never assume someone knows what you mean.

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Jul 1, 2014 02:08:52   #
JustLinda Loc: California
 
I agree Dave in SD, you are very clear indeed. It is exceedingly clear you may have an opinion but are intolerant of another's opinion that does not agree with yours. Surely it is acceptable for you to criticize, but not for someone to simply state his opinion of the photo in question. All this blustering, repetition, and arrogance about grain and contrast on your part, I can assure you it was heard the first time you posted it.

JL

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Jul 1, 2014 03:53:58   #
Graham Smith Loc: Cambridgeshire UK
 
Rudolf wrote:
Cooks taking a mid-afternoon break.


I think this is an interesting picture Rudolf. I immediately know what is going on, I am there, they are giving me (you) their attention. One guy is completely relaxed and smiling, the other is showing just a touch of tension, perhaps bemusement as to why anyone would want to take his picture but is accepting and happy to comply.
Personally I'm not a fan of the more yellow tints, I find they are to "acid", preferring a warmer copper tone or for a cooler look I occasionally use a selenium tint. I don't find the grain at all excessive, contrast wise some dodging and burning would alleviate that but if you are happy with it the way it is leave it.

If "street photography" of strangers on the street is not something you pursue then my hat is off to you. I could imagine this as an image captured in the style of the social documentary photographers 80 years ago.

Graham

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Jul 1, 2014 06:53:10   #
Rudolf Loc: Marietta, Georgia
 
Graham Smith wrote:
I think this is an interesting picture Rudolf. I immediately know what is going on, I am there, they are giving me (you) their attention. One guy is completely relaxed and smiling, the other is showing just a touch of tension, perhaps bemusement as to why anyone would want to take his picture but is accepting and happy to comply.
Personally I'm not a fan of the more yellow tints, I find they are to "acid", preferring a warmer copper tone or for a cooler look I occasionally use a selenium tint. I don't find the grain at all excessive, contrast wise some dodging and burning would alleviate that but if you are happy with it the way it is leave it.

If "street photography" of strangers on the street is not something you pursue then my hat is off to you. I could imagine this as an image
captured in the style of the social documentary photographers 80 years ago.

Graham
I think this is an interesting picture Rudolf. I i... (show quote)


Thanks Graham. Usually when I take street photographs, it is from a far. As in this case, to ask permission was very strange to me. It is an engagement that could go either way.

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Jul 1, 2014 09:17:16   #
Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)
 
quote=JustLinda]I agree Dave in SD, you are very clear indeed. It is exceedingly clear you may have an opinion but are intolerant of another's opinion that does not agree with yours. Surely it is acceptable for you to criticize, but not for someone to simply state his opinion of the photo in question. All this blustering, repetition, and arrogance about grain and contrast on your part, I can assure you it was heard the first time you posted it.

JL[/quote]

You missed, totally, my point. I had no problem with and pointedly did not comment further about grain and contrast.

However, the critic did not, in fact, limit himself to the photo in question, but went on to engage in personal invective, to wit: "thoughtless" and "sloppy". Those words more-than-lightly impugn the photographer's seriousness of intent and effort. That's out of line in any image critique. The act of submitting an image for critique is prima facie evidence of his serious motivation as a photographer. In earlier times it would merit being challenged to a duel.

Dave in SD

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