Starting a discussion on HDR: After experimenting with HDR for several days and doing some research on the subject an idea occurred to me. One of my photo heros, Ansel Adams used a...

jwt Loc: Texas Hill Country

After experimenting with HDR for several days and doing some research on the subject an idea occurred to me. One of my photo heros, Ansel Adams used a system that I believe he called zone exposure. Now after looking at several of his prints online, it strikes me that the results he achieved with his system is eerily similar to today's HDR. Agree or Disagree please comment and share your reasons for your choice. Thanks to all - Regards Jim

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

jwt wrote:

After experimenting with HDR for several days and doing some research on the subject an idea occurred to me. One of my photo heros, Ansel Adams used a system that I believe he called zone exposure. Now after looking at several of his prints online, it strikes me that the results he achieved with his system is eerily similar to today's HDR. Agree or Disagree please comment and share your reasons for your choice. Thanks to all - Regards Jim

It is similar in that the goal is to get detail in all areas from shadows to highlights. But the methods are quite different, in the way digital is different from film. HDR takes different exposures and combines them to get all the details. Ansel Adams' method involved only one exposure, combined with the optimum development of the film - basically more exposure and less development for less contrast, or less exposure and more development for more contrast. Of course, even after getting a negative with all the detail present, Ansel would spend hours in the darkroom burning and dodging to bring out all that detail.

jwt Loc: Texas Hill Country

Thanks John, that is just the kind of information I am looking for. I am having quite a bit of fun with my in-camera HDR shots and find that depending on the subject the brighter the sun the more pronounced the HDR effect. Thank you again for your enlightening comment. Regards Jim

LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field

JohnSwanda wrote:

It is similar in that the goal is to get detail in... (show quote)

He was also quite the chemist and varied the chemistry to achieve the results he visualized

Shellback Loc: North of Cheyenne Bottoms Wetlands - Kansas

jwt wrote:

After experimenting with HDR for several days and doing some research on the subject an idea occurred to me. One of my photo heros, Ansel Adams used a system that I believe he called zone exposure. Now after looking at several of his prints online, it strikes me that the results he achieved with his system is eerily similar to today's HDR. Agree or Disagree please comment and share your reasons for your choice. Thanks to all - Regards Jim

My understanding of HDR is to blend multiple exposures of the same scene to more closely reproduce what your eye can see.

The Zone system relates to BW photography and the gray scale that ranges from dark to light. Zone 0 is black and Zone IX is glaring white.
(Zone VI is flesh tone - Angels are VIII)

The Zone system is about having your camera correctly adjusted to ensure white shows as white and black shows as black vs. middle gray.

It is a simple method once you get the hang of it -
One method is called the "rapid exposure calculation" - since you know Zone VI is flesh tone, use the palm of your hand, parallel to the subject, in the same light, read the meter on your hand (for Zone VI value) and then evaluate the scene/subject and adjust your settings accordingly for the picture - increase or decrease stops (either speed or aperture) for lighter to darker results.

If you can find it, the Zone VI workshop by Fred Picker explains it well and Ansel had a book about negatives that discussed it.

- my .02 worth...

Shellback Loc: North of Cheyenne Bottoms Wetlands - Kansas

Update - you can get the hardcover book from Amazon for .01

http://www.amazon.com/Zone-VI-Workshop-Fred-Picker/dp/0817405747

jwt Loc: Texas Hill Country

:thumbup: :thumbup:

jwt Loc: Texas Hill Country

I actually tried the zone procedure back in the day when I was doing a lot of shooting with a Rolleicord and with a Mamiya 3 x 5 camera and I even had a little zone system meter. Never got really good at it although it was fun. Thanks for your input, really appreciate it. - Regards Jim

CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!

LoneRangeFinder wrote:

He was also quite the chemist and varied the chemistry to achieve the results he visualized

^^^EXACTLY!

Ansel Adams used the most advanced technology available to him and was an absolute MASTER in the darkroom.

:thumbup:

jwt Loc: Texas Hill Country

CHOLLY wrote:

^^^EXACTLY!

Ansel Adams used the most advanced technology available to him and was an absolute MASTER in the darkroom.

:thumbup:

:-D :thumbup: :thumbup:

CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!

Shellback wrote:

My understanding of HDR is to blend multiple expos... (show quote)

:thumbup:

^^^This is effectively what HDR is in digital photography. Multiple exposures at different levels combined to produce an image with a higher dynamic range than any single image capable of being produced at once by a digital camera.

Isn't the zone system an attempt to produce a negative with the maximum dynamic range of colors?

CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!

jwt wrote:

I actually tried the zone procedure back in the day when I was doing a lot of shooting with a Rolleicord and with a Mamiya 3 x 5 camera and I even had a little zone system meter. Never got really good at it although it was fun. Thanks for your input, really appreciate it. - Regards Jim

Jim, you should dig up those slides and show us how good you were.

I'll bet they are better than you give yourself credit for... :mrgreen:

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

Yep. The equipment, technology and methodologies change but the philosophies map across the technology boundaries.

I can thoroughly recommend Mary Street Alinder's biography of Adams. She has exceptional insight into the life of the man behind the images and one can learn much that can be adapted to the latest technology.

Have fun

jwt Loc: Texas Hill Country

I guess the end result is what really makes a comparison valid here. The zone system of the black & white images of Adams day are extraordinary and nothing can ever take that away. However, the HDR images when used the way the should be really make for a lovely picture. :-D :thumbup:

jwt Loc: Texas Hill Country

CHOLLY wrote:

Jim, you should dig up those slides and show us how good you were.

I'll bet they are better than you give yourself credit for... :mrgreen:

Thanks for the vote of confidence Cholly, I might just do that if I can get them down from the boxes in the attic. :-D :thumbup: