Right to Pray: Big Win for Prayer Lobby http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/08/opinion/a-big-win-for-the-prayer-lobby.html?emc=eta1&

James Shaw

Big Win for Prayer Lobby

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/08/opinion/a-big-win-for-the-prayer-lobby.html?emc=eta1&_r=0

Frank T Loc: New York, NY

This is truly a sad day for America. Let's just stop and take a moment to think of what your take would be on this ruling if it gave Wiccans the right to burn incense and say a prayer at the beginning of public meetings. What if we all faced Mecca and prayed to Allah? What if these prayers were in direct conflict with Christian beliefs? Would you still think this was a good ruling? The court was wrong in this decision and history will bear that out.

James Shaw

Frank T wrote:

This is truly a sad day for America. Let's just stop and take a moment to think of what your take would be on this ruling if it gave Wiccans the right to burn incense and say a prayer at the beginning of public meetings. What if we all faced Mecca and prayed to Allah? What if these prayers were in direct conflict with Christian beliefs? Would you still think this was a good ruling? The court was wrong in this decision and history will bear that out.

Please don't mis-quote me. I did not say it was a good ruling. I see the exact problems with the ruling as you mention above. Next will be a request to the Supreme Court to provide monies for prayer rugs for Muslims, etc., etc,. etc.

You statement using the Wiccans is funny! I have a friend who claims to be a Wiccan, whatever that is. I think it means that one goes through various levels in some far off place, somewhere, before one reaches the highest level. I am not sure what happens after that. Funny.

sauldrap Loc: Northern CA

I believe the court is doing the right thing by allowing unrestricted prayers to start a meeting of a governing body. Denying those who wish to pray the right and the opportunity to pray is a far more problematic issue, which the court chose to avoid. There can be a clear, sharp line between the freedom to pray (or not to) and the establishment of a state religion.

Those who fear even being exposed to the prayers of others may be reacting out of their insecurity in their own beliefs rather than simply trying to defend a too broad interpretation of the Establishment clause.

Here's a thought: Maybe if we paid more attention to the common prayers of "others" we would have a better understanding of the ethics and morals of their religious teachings which might help us understand the underlying reasons for Arab nationalism, Zionism or other current conflicts.

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

Frank T wrote:

This is truly a sad day for America. Let's just stop and take a moment to think of what your take would be on this ruling if it gave Wiccans the right to burn incense and say a prayer at the beginning of public meetings. What if we all faced Mecca and prayed to Allah? What if these prayers were in direct conflict with Christian beliefs? Would you still think this was a good ruling? The court was wrong in this decision and history will bear that out.

The Rulings of the Court does just that, give the Wiccans the right to burn incense and say a prayer at the beginning of public meetings and for Muslims to faced Mecca and prayed to Allah before a group or a meeting. It is called Freedom of Religion as stated in our Constitution. So yes, as a Christian I do believe this is a good ruling. As long as a Muslim does not bring his AK 47 to the meeting I see no reason to protest.

Do you think that an atheist would protest if a Wiccans prayed before a public meeting?

Batman Loc: South-Central Texas

Bangee5 wrote:

The Rulings of the Court does just that, give the ... (show quote)

Absolutely! It is in the nature of an Atheist to protest any time he/she can call attention to themselves by standing up and ( in effect ) yelling, "Hey, look at me! Look how bad I am!", "Arent I shocking?", "Pay attention to me!", "Aren't you disgusted with me?", " "Hey, Parent/Caregiver, it's me
aren't you shocked at how I turned out?" "Pay attention to me! Please! Please! Oh, God, HELP me!"
There, but for the Grace of God, go you and I.
Sad!

:roll:

James Shaw

sauldrap wrote:

I believe the court is doing the right thing by al... (show quote)

Appreciate your side of things. The fact that we do not pay more attention to others is human nature and surly contributes to wars and seemingly endless battles on religion.

James Shaw

Bangee5 wrote:

The Rulings of the Court does just that, give the ... (show quote)

Good show Bangee. Many support your side as well!!!

James Shaw

Batman wrote:

Absolutely! It is in the nature of an Atheist to p... (show quote)

Lot of atheists out there that would probably NOT do what you say. Many probably couldn't care less.

Oh yes, there are likely a few, like fundamentalists Christians and Muslims, etc. who will try to take a negative advantage of the ruling.

Croce Loc: Earth

Frank T wrote:

This is truly a sad day for America. Let's just stop and take a moment to think of what your take would be on this ruling if it gave Wiccans the right to burn incense and say a prayer at the beginning of public meetings. What if we all faced Mecca and prayed to Allah? What if these prayers were in direct conflict with Christian beliefs? Would you still think this was a good ruling? The court was wrong in this decision and history will bear that out.

For once I agree Frank, public prayer not only offends me as I am an unwilling participant, but all theocratic moves are in violation of the constitution no matter how the SC tries to dance around it. They are treading on dangerous ground and when muslims demand equal sanction and recognition of sharia, the court will realize their own words have returned to bite them in the ass.

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

Croce wrote:

For once I agree Frank, public prayer not only offends me as I am an unwilling participant, but all theocratic moves are in violation of the constitution no matter how the SC tries to dance around it. They are treading on dangerous ground and when muslims demand equal sanction and recognition of sharia, the court will realize their own words have returned to bite them in the ass.

Are you saying that Muslims do not have equal rights under the Constitution to pray before an assembly? I say they do and what would be the problem if they did? It would have a lot to do with location and who would be at the meeting. If it is a town hall meeting then anyone can be ask to pray.

Michael O' Loc: Midwest right now

Hiding out Frank, restricting freedoms, as you suggest, is anti-American

Bunko.T Loc: Western Australia.

sauldrap wrote:

I believe the court is doing the right thing by al... (show quote)

I have no problem with folks praying. Similarly to noisy neighbours. If their noise doesn't intrude into my hearing space.
Pray if you have to but do it privately & quietly.

Bunko.T Loc: Western Australia.

Batman wrote:

Absolutely! It is in the nature of an Atheist to p... (show quote)

You could apply the same in reverse. Why do the pray-ers have to pray aloud. After all its the thought that counts & prayer is in the mind of the beholder.
Why out loud? And WHY does it have to beat others ears???
Is it a Statement "Pay attention to me", Please! Please! Oh God Help Me!
"Hey Look at Me". "Look how GOOD I am" & all that mindless carry on!!!

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

Bunko.T wrote:

You could apply the same in reverse. Why do the pray-ers have to pray aloud. After all its the thought that counts & prayer is in the mind of the beholder.
Why out loud? And WHY does it have to beat others ears???
Is it a Statement "Pay attention to me", Please! Please! Oh God Help Me!
"Hey Look at Me". "Look how GOOD I am" & all that mindless carry on!!!

When you are ask to lead others in prayer then of course you pray out loud. That is the point. This is taking place at meetings like town hall meetings.